For the homosexuals:

[Ben Kenobi]

Molly:

I can make a list too:

Mauritania	2	Muslim
Sudan	2	Muslim
Egypt	2	Muslim
Yemen	2	Muslim
UAE	2	Muslim
Bahrain	2	Muslim
Quatar	2	Muslim
Iran	2	Muslim
Morocco	1	Muslim
Spanish Sahara	1	Muslim
Senegal	1	Muslim
Gambia	1	Muslim
Libya	1	Muslim
Algeria	1	Muslim
Tunisia	1	Muslim
Egypt	1	Muslim
Somalia	1	Muslim
Uzbekistan	1	Muslim
Turkmenistan	1	Muslim
Afghanistan	1	Muslim
Pakistan	1	Muslim
Malasia	1	Muslim
Kuwait	1	Muslim
Bangladesh	1	Muslim
Ceylon	1	Muslim

[Ben Kenobi]

Majority Muslim countries without imprisonment or the death penalty = 1

Turkey. That's it.

All the others either 'lack information'. Why aren't you excoriating the Muslims for their unform hostility towards homosexuality?

[SpencerH]

Is homosexuality a disorder? I dunno I'm not a shrink, I'm a cellular microbiologist.

Could homosexuality be defined as a disorder? From the perspective of species survival, perhaps. But if one does so one has to accept the argument that there must be some benefit to explain its continued existance within animal populations (or I suppose one could argue (falsely IMO) an absence of negative selective pressure).

[Nikolai]

I doubt homosexuality is genetically based. And calling it an disorder....I don't know, it sounds wrong to me. Homosexuality certainly is wrong according to God's word, but so are many other things, and none claims other things the Bible calls sin is genetical diseases. I could wish we Christians could learn from Jesus' example, and treat other people as He did. That doesn't mean we can't be clear on what is sin, but we are all sinners and the Church is a place for sinners, who know that they are sinners and need God. It often seems like many Christians think they are better than other people. I shall give my faith's critics that one. How much I must stress this: We all sin, and no sin is better or worse than any other! And I doubt, if Eye is right that this is genetically based(which I do not think), that homosexuals would want to change. Why would they? Our sexuality defines much of ourselves. I sin. We all sin. We won't be sin free before in the after life. In this life, all we can do is to come to our maker and live in His grace. He won't turn us away, whatever we are or whatever we have done and will do.

[Blake]

Lets GE people to be tolerant of each other. All problems solved.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Imagine if someone seriously proposed that you could choose to have all your 'problems' solved for you by simply no longer being Jewish, or having the 'defective' Jewish gene deleted.

How offended might you be ?

How wonderful- no more antisemitism, no more blood libels, no more anti-Jewish stereotyping, no more pogroms- because we'd all be goyz in da hood.

With rollback hoods too, presumably.

Dude, of course it is somewhat offending. And yet, it is not that bad a question.

Lots of Jews decided to change their faith in the 18th and until the early 20th century, choosing freedom over being ostracized. It is certainly a question worth answering.

These days, I pay almost no fine for being Jewish. I do pay a small fine for being an immigrant, and I might have chose to be born Israeli, even though I am proud of being a russian immigrant.


With gays the question is more complex, because gays are not really able to choose. Religion is very slightly similar since you don't usually choose it, but are 'brought up' into it. Only, religion is eventually a conscious choise. You can change your religion or become an atheist. Being gay is not something that anyone can 'get rid' of.

That is exactly why this question is interesting.
If we hadn't had conflict about being gay then the thread's question would be useless and boring.

And yes it is offending, and the way EoN discusses it is even more offending.

It is still an interesting question, especially for a hetero that doesn't know what's it like to be gay, and a good chance for you to explain yourself.

I don't 'pretend' to be anything.

Take my posts as they are. If you don't like 'em, the solution is obvious and in your hands- don't read them.

You're going all aggressive again.

You should really learn to listen instead of being agressive.
You can make your point without it being annoying to the other side.

I'm not saying this to take a shot at you. I'm being frank. I'd like to read more of your posts. Your style bothers me. I ask you to change. If you wish to ignore this, please do.

Then perhaps before you started this post in the fashion you did, you should have reviewed and inwardly digested them.

Your post's prefatory remarks might have been the better for it.

Perhaps. But I don't really know if you're all knowing or just pretending, since I share little of your interests, and lack the ability to judge what you post against any other information.

The comment was a cheapshot, but relevant to my further point - which is that you often express your ideas in an extremely condescending attitude.

Then that is your deficit in understanding or empathy.

I could list a large number of countries where homosexuality (and homosexual 'acts') is outlawed and punishable by death or imprisonment.

I could cite the legislation passed by a Conservative government in this country which attempted not only to stigmatize lesbians and gay men, but which tried to prevent school children even being taught about the existence of homosexuality.

Or the on-off campaigns in the newspapers and other media which regularly spuriously link same sex acts between consenting adults with predatory paedophilia- even when the perpetrators are married.

Or the ostracism experienced by young gays and lesbians, the atrocious disproportionate harassment suffered by lesbian and gay schoolchildren and the concomitant high suicide rates.

I could descant at length on threats in the workplace, snide remarks in the office, lack of promotion, and so on, ad infinitum.

Sure, being a victim is easy. Tell it to a Jew. However gays are not as weak and oppressed as they were. You're in the workplace, and in the media, with tons of celebrities, movie and music stars coming out.

I am also under the impression that the UK has openly gay politicians.

True, some countries hate gay people. Most of those hate Christians, Jews and women too.

I fail to see where your defensiveness comes from.

Perhaps it is somewhat easier for gays in Israel, so my view of the issue is somewhat skewed.

But being overly defensive about it is also annoying. Sort of like lots of people hate it when Jews get defensive about religion / politics / history, and use the anti-semite card.

No, the question and the poser of the question does more than imply it- the fault is OURS ALONE, OUR 'defective' genes.

So what's so wrong with being called defective?
Can't handle being compared to a person with 6 fingers?
Why do you hate 6-fingered people so much!!!

And seriously, there is as much validity to this question as there is to "whether you rather be born blond?".

Surely no one would post in rage over this silly question. However, Even this joke assumes (correctly) that blond people receive preferential treatment in life. Blond people are often considered prettier, healthier, have bigger boobs, penises and what not.

It is exactly this tension that makes it interesting.

Happily, in the kingdom of the blind even a one-eyed man can be king.

This is exactly what I told you about your posts. While discussing an issue, you constantly preach, trying to prove you're more knowledgeable or pretend you're on a moral high-ground.

It is annoying, and doesn't really increase my receptiveness to your point of view. Stop lecturing people, and start talking to them.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

These days, I pay almost no fine for being Jewish. I do pay a small fine for being an immigrant, and I might have chose to be born Israeli, even though I am proud of being a russian immigrant.

WTF? They are shaking you down???

Surely not. That would give the stereotype warriors too much ammunition.

[Sirotnikov]

"paying a fine" is a figure of speech, dude.

it refers to all the hardships and xenophobia an immigrant faces.

you're probably playing a joke and i'm too tired / drunk to notice

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
"paying a fine" is a figure of speech, dude.

it refers to all the hardships and xenophobia an immigrant faces.

you're probably playing a joke and i'm too tired / drunk to notice

No. It's just not something people say around here.

A bit weird if you ask me, since pretty much all Israelis are immigrants, or the sons and daughters of immigrants.

I guess it's like in New Zealand, where the New Zealand Chinese (who have been here since the 1800s) complain about Asian immigration.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


Yes.

Because it helped me relate and understand your point of view much better than the regular "what a dumb question" reply.

not that your reply did not have its share of criticism for EoN.

The OP was basically like a "slap" in the face for me. I was offended by it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MrFun

The OP was basically like a "slap" in the face for me. I was offended by it.

Yes, but you'd be offended by pocket lint, so this doesn't count.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Agathon


Yes, but you'd be offended by pocket lint, so this doesn't count.

I'm offended by the fact that you think I'm offended by pocket lint.

[Agathon]

And in furtherance of the gay agenda, prominent politicians are being forced to wear clothing appropriate for homosexuals.

An outrage.

[Mercator]

For the bigots:

If scientists were to discover a gene that determines tolerance, and they then discovered a way to make it so that they could reverse the disorder that causes bigotry, would you choose to remain a bigot or would you choose to become a liberal?

[Nikolai]

Good one.