Ken Kutaragi replaced as president of Sony's gaming unit

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
Try playing an RTS in 640x480 in FuzzyVision. It'll be fun. The CPU is also very weak, so the AI would be dumb as ****.

AI has far more to do with programmers' abilities than computer power. Unless you're programming chess, you're almost guaranteed to be using an expert system.

Then again, you guys seem to be stuck on the idea of using a PC interface for RTSes on the console. That doesn't make sense, and I guarantee you it's not what will be implemented.

Because you can't. But I see no guarantee that anything too similar to current RTS's can be done at all on a gamepad.

[Kuciwalker]

The reason it looks kind of like a 360/PS3 title is it has per-pixel lighting, which isn't possible on the Wii.

And I don't agree at all that you'd need the Wiimote to do that. Pull the a trigger in and the analog stick controls your arm. Tada.

It would be really clumsy. With the Wiimote, you have fine control over where you move stuff.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
"Crying for" the Wii? You mistake me, sir: I am crying for my low post-count and lack of a custom avatar, while laughing at your fanboyism. I am defending the Wii because it sounds like it could be pretty fun; I've never owned a Nintendo console in my life, though I do emulate them seeing as they're free now.

Your high-brow schtick humour is starting to get annoying as you vie for attention.

Good on you if you think the Wii is fun. Go get one, try it out.

My point is that the Wiimote is a genuine novelty controller that would work well for some games (for example, for children who had no friends in childhood and could not have lightsabre battles then, they can do it now with the Wiimote to become the next Star Wars Kid). You've got a piece of technology that will look progressively worse over the years. It's control is novel, but then again so were light guns and the powerglove. They're all "WHOA COOL!!!" until you get bored of them.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
AI has far more to do with programmers' abilities than computer power. Unless you're programming chess, you're almost guaranteed to be using an expert system.

What exactly do you base this on? Are you aware how expensive AI is from a CPU perspective?

I'm not talking about scripted reactions we see in most earlier games.

Because you can't. But I see no guarantee that anything too similar to current RTS's can be done at all on a gamepad.

Have you played Battle for Middle Earth II on the 360? Polish that kind of system and you've got yourself a winner.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It would be really clumsy. With the Wiimote, you have fine control over where you move stuff.

So it's impossible to have aiming reticles without the Wiimote?

[Kuciwalker]

I'm not talking about scripted reactions we see in most earlier games.

Funny, every new FPS that comes out talks about "teh awesome AI!" and how now it flanks you...

[Dinner]

So basically the PS3 was botched so badly they fired the head of the unit?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Funny, every new FPS that comes out talks about "teh awesome AI!" and how now it flanks you...

And isn't it refreshing?

Compare this with Red Steel, where the AI is clearly extremely stupid that it becomes a shooting gallery. Or perhaps that's the INNOVATION?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
So it's impossible to have aiming reticles without the Wiimote?

No, because with an FPS are always only handling 1 point at a time. With something like an RTS, you need to be able to quickly select many, possibly very distant points quickly.

And the gamepad is an inferior input device for FPS's, in that a good mouse player will dominate a good gamepad player every time.

[Elok]

Er, Asher? The people who didn't have friends to lightsaber-battle with as children are all "hardcore gamers" now. It's the well-adjusted people who tend to like trying new things as opposed to playing Halo until they've memorized the map layouts and have come up with by-the-second strategies for each kind of match. Or who play Starcraft until it's reflexive and they can beat the Koreans, or who actually bother to level their Tauren Shaman up to sixty and get epic mounts in WoW.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher
Xbox 360 exclusives (announced):

Alan Wake - Seems to have promise, haven't tracked it much.

Blue Dragon - Eventually it'll be in the US.

Fable 2 - Did the first one break a million? I'd be at a loss to explain why, other than how overhyped it was. How many of those groundbreaking features even made it in the game?

Forza Motorsport 2 - Why?

Gears of War - This one is well on its way, simple because people were desperate for a new game to play on their 400 dollar console.

Halo 3 - Of course.

Halo Wars - Probable, simple due to the name, not out of any real merit.

Mass Effect - Most people can't get enough from these guys.

PGR4 - Most likely, but it's an old Xbox franchise. Never really liked it, myself.

Shadowrun - Never heard of it

Too Human - Never heard of it.

Lost Planet - The demo for this was fun, I'll definitely pick it up.

FIFA 2007 - Blah. Nothing special.

PES 6 - See above.

Ninja Gaiden 2 - WOOT

Splinter Cell 5 - See above.



Now, how many of these games are even going to be released in the next 6 months? How long has it taken for the 360 to have more than a handful of decent games available? A year and counting. Let's give the Wii at least as much time

[Kuciwalker]

Asher's antipathy to Star Wars is just masked disappointment that Luke never got any man-love

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
No, because with an FPS are always only handling 1 point at a time. With something like an RTS, you need to be able to quickly select many, possibly very distant points quickly.

And you don't think this will be difficult to do holding your arm out pointing at a TV in the distance?

There are other control paradigms you are not considering. If you're moving groups of units it's very easy. Again, have you played or even looked at BFME2?

And the gamepad is an inferior input device for FPS's, in that a good mouse player will dominate a good gamepad player every time.

I agree that a mouse is better (more accurate), but not necessarily more immersive or fun. In fact, I prefer my shooters on the console.

I also do not agree that the "light gun"-like aiming/mouse mode of the Wii will be any more effective. Holding your arm out like that is NOT easy to do for extended periods of time, period.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
Er, Asher? The people who didn't have friends to lightsaber-battle with as children are all "hardcore gamers" now.

On the contrary, most hardcore gamers are hardcore Star Wars fans and live off this kind of geeky stuff.

[Kuciwalker]

And you don't think this will be difficult to do holding your arm out pointing at a TV in the distance?

I think it will be a lot easier to do ona 640x480 screen holding the controller in or near your lap. I know lotm commented on how much like a mouse it felt.

I agree that a mouse is better (more accurate), but not necessarily more immersive or fun. In fact, I prefer my shooters on the console.

I agree. But when the gamepad actually gets in the way of playing the game (RTS) or just doesn't offer the precision to do something that would be really natural with the Wiimote (picking up rocks and chucking them in arbitrary directions at arbitrary speeds), it's actually less immersive and fun.