Ken Kutaragi replaced as president of Sony's gaming unit

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
On the contrary, most hardcore gamers are hardcore Star Wars fans and live off this kind of geeky stuff.

That's what he said.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
Fable 2 - Did the first one break a million? I'd be at a loss to explain why, other than how overhyped it was. How many of those groundbreaking features even made it in the game?

Fable sold over two million copies.

Forza Motorsport 2 - Why?

It's the definitive racing simulator. The first one sold millions on the Xbox, and now that there's a genuine force feedback (not just vibration) wheel and high-res displays, it'll be even more of a force. The hype in the community for racing games (which sell VERY well on the Xbox) is very high for Forza 2.

Shadowrun - Never heard of it

It's an oldschool franchise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun

Too Human - Never heard of it.

What? I thought you liked Nintendo games. This was the Nintendo fanboys darling throughout the Gamecube's lifespan until Silicon Knights got fed up with Apple's Nintendo's shafting of 3rd party developers and defected to Microsoft. I'm partial to this game because I had interviews with them to work on it, but it's in St. Catherine's, Ontario...so blech.

Read up on the game on IGN or whatever. It's very promising: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Human

Now, how many of these games are even going to be released in the next 6 months?

A whole whack of them are due out in the first half of 07...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I think it will be a lot easier to do ona 640x480 screen holding the controller in or near your lap.

Oh come on. Think about it. It's hard to aim while holding a pointer on your lap, and even then it's tiring. Wrists aren't meant to move in such fine motions so often while being supported purely by muscles holding the hand in position.

It's an ergonomic nightmare, as well as a practical nightmare.

I agree. But when the gamepad actually gets in the way of playing the game (RTS) or just doesn't offer the precision to do something that would be really natural with the Wiimote (picking up rocks and chucking them in arbitrary directions at arbitrary speeds), it's actually less immersive and fun.

Are RTS games honestly supposed to be immersive?

Either way -- RTS games with a glorified laser pointer is physically painful to do for extended periods of time. Also, you again ignore the fact that control paradigms can change for console RTS games to work effectively.

[Kuciwalker]

Oh come on. Think about it. It's hard to aim while holding a pointer on your lap, and even then it's tiring. Wrists aren't meant to move in such fine motions so often while being supported purely by muscles holding the hand in position.

It's an ergonomic nightmare, as well as a practical nightmare.

I meant using your leg as an armrest. Better would probably be an actual armrest on the chair or sofa.

Are RTS games honestly supposed to be immersive?

You're the one who brought it up.

Either way -- RTS games with a glorified laser pointer is physically painful to do for extended periods of time. Also, you again ignore the fact that control paradigms can change for console RTS games to work effectively.

And you're missing the fact that we no idea whether there is a viable control paradigm for RTS on the console. Halo Wars is nothing for than, what, 8 minutes of prerendered trailer?

And you're also ignoring the other half of my point: any game where you want to manipulate an object in space arbitrarily.

[Verto]

What? I thought you liked Nintendo games. This was the Nintendo fanboys darling throughout the Gamecube's lifespan until Silicon Knights got fed up with Apple's shafting of 3rd party developers and defected to Microsoft. I'm partial to this game because I had interviews with them to work on it, but it's in St. Catherine's, Ontario...so blech.

What?

Anyway, I didn't own a GC until around 5 months ago, so I don't have a lot of knowledge about it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto

What? I thought you liked Nintendo games. This was the Nintendo fanboys darling throughout the Gamecube's lifespan until Silicon Knights got fed up with Apple's shafting of 3rd party developers and defected to Microsoft. I'm partial to this game because I had interviews with them to work on it, but it's in St. Catherine's, Ontario...so blech.

What?

Anyway, I didn't own a GC until around 5 months ago, so I don't have a lot of knowledge about it.

It was a joke I later clarified, crossing out Apple and putting in Nintendo.

Apple and Nintendo both have a history of shafting their 3rd party development, stagnating non-first party software libraries. It's why they lose marketshare due to lack of interesting games.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher

It was a joke I later clarified, crossing out Apple and putting in Nintendo.

Apple and Nintendo both have a history of shafting their 3rd party development, stagnating non-first party software libraries. It's why they lose marketshare due to lack of interesting games.

Whereas Microsoft just buys third-party developers?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I meant using your leg as an armrest. Better would probably be an actual armrest on the chair or sofa.

You're still moving your forearm up and wrist constantly, which is not normal behaviour and is bound to give you "Wii hand" or whatever the term is they're going to call it.

You're the one who brought it up.

RTS != FPS.

And you're missing the fact that we no idea whether there is a viable control paradigm for RTS on the console. Halo Wars is nothing for than, what, 8 minutes of prerendered trailer?

And you're ignoring the fact that there is already a successful RTS on the Xbox 360 -- BFEM2. So we do know there is a viable control paradigm for RTS on the console.

And you're also ignoring the other half of my point: any game where you want to manipulate an object in space arbitrarily.

As much fun as moving objects sounds, are you sure you want to make this a pillar of your argument? Perhaps in the vein of the upcoming Cooking Wii game, we could have a "Nintendo Movers" game where people used the Wiimote to move boxes?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
Whereas Microsoft just buys third-party developers?

They aren't third party if Microsoft buys them, Verto darling.

Microsoft is very well regarded as being the easiest console manufacturer to work with. They provide by far the best tools, development libraries, assistance, and also the lowest royalty fees. They also have a system like Intel in marketing, in that they'll pay for portions of your advertising campaign for the game as well.

Third parties love them, which is why the Xbox got so much support with its relatively tiny install base. Mix up that support with the largest install base, and it's pretty much a home run for them.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
You're still moving your forearm up and wrist constantly, which is not normal behaviour and is bound to give you "Wii hand" or whatever the term is they're going to call it.

If you just angle the remote it's not much more than mouse use give syou.

RTS != FPS.

I was talking about immersion.

And you're ignoring the fact that there is already a successful RTS on the Xbox 360 -- BFEM2. So we do know there is a viable control paradigm for RTS on the console.

How successful was it, again? And even you recommended that lotm just get it on the PC, since it was inferior on the console.

As much fun as moving objects sounds, are you sure you want to make this a pillar of your argument? Perhaps in the vein of the upcoming Cooking Wii game, we could have a "Nintendo Movers" game where people used the Wiimote to move boxes?

That's like saying we could have an "Xbox Pointing Game" where you point at aliens and they explode...

[laurentius]

Sure everyone just loves MS. Just like every studio just loved their Halo movie. Because they are the easiest to work with

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I was talking about immersion.

Yes, and my point is RTS games aren't meant for immersion. FPS are. I brought it up in an FPS context, not RTS.

How successful was it, again? And even you recommended that lotm just get it on the PC, since it was inferior on the console.

It sold well, better than expected. And it is better on the PC -- the console version is a port of the PC version, after all.

See, I'm not a fanboy. I'm practical.

That's like saying we could have an "Xbox Pointing Game" where you point at aliens and they explode...

Isn't the Wiimote the one with the laser pointer?

[Asher]

Originally posted by laurentius
Sure everyone just loves MS. Just like every studio just loved their Halo movie. Because they are the easiest to work with

Err...their move studio work has nothing to do with games.

MS demanded that the budget for the Halo move be at least $200M to ensure it's not a low-budget crapfest most video game movies are.

They'd rather the movie not be made at all than to be made as a crappy one, and that makes sense to me.

As for liking working with MS...if the movie people hate MS, why did Peter Jackson sign up to form a game studio with them?

[Kuciwalker]

Yes, and my point is RTS games aren't meant for immersion. FPS are. I brought it up in an FPS context, not RTS.

And I'm not just talking about FPS or RTS. There are other games besides those, racing, and sports, you know.

It sold well, better than expected. And it is better on the PC -- the console version is a port of the PC version, after all.

It's nothing more than evidence that you can make RTS tolerable on a gamepad.

Isn't the Wiimote the one with the laser pointer?

You miss the point.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
And I'm not just talking about FPS or RTS. There are other games besides those, racing, and sports, you know.

How can the Wii be at all immersive if the games admittedly look like ass?

You should play PGR3 on the 360 with the force feedback wheel I have, then play Excite Truck on the Wii and tell me which is immersive.

It's nothing more than evidence that you can make RTS tolerable on a gamepad.

tolerable = usable = viable?