The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[Mrs. Tuberski]

you really have to be ****ing Kidding me!!! Your whole argument here has been all along that all folks that fly the confederate flag are racists. And the only folks that fly that flag support slavery and racism and assoicated with the kkk. Im sorry its not in your mind to disassocite the kkk with the civil war but hey who the hell is anyone to say what u can do.
First off who the hell is any one to decide how any one displays pride in thier culture? if a black guy holds out a flag for the blacks he is labled a racist radical, why are u just labeling the white folks and mind you i have already said im not white. It goes for any one gay, black, jew white, yellow or green.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sadly, it's still common in our country for Americans to be uncomfortable with honestly looking at our own country's history in regards to the boogey-man of the issue of race

Mr. Fun, I don't see why you feel you have the authority to talk down to the rest of us by sharing us your enlightened ideas.

Why don't you drop the pedantic pretence and actually poke your nose out the window for once.

Slowwhand makes an excellent point. How can you truly understand the civil war or be an expert in the discipline if you haven't even travelled to the south at all? There is only so much you can learn from the books.

white Southerners ought to find more productive and positive ways to express pride in their state's/region's culture. Such expression would be inclusive of black Southerners and all other groups that reside in the South.

This is rich. A pasty white boy from Iowa lecturing the Mrs. on being inclusive.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I would imagine that a gay individual in the United States may have some idea of exclusive behavior pertaining to minority groups.

[Nubclear]

I think we need a small reminder of what the Confederate flag still means to a great many people.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I would imagine that a gay individual in the United States may have some idea of exclusive behavior pertaining to minority groups.

Why?? Is it cause everyone knows they are gay?? I think to know that theyd have to mention it or have it written on their forehead, otherwise i wouldnt assume he is gay or not. I dont need a preaching to about being a mnority really i dont, cause ya know what. i have been there when someone will talk to my white husband before they acknowledge my existance and then blow me off again when my white husband answers them and i have said im out of here. I dont own a confederate flag but i dont associate it with hate and ignorance either

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
I think we need a small reminder of what the Confederate flag still means to a great many people.

how is that different then the german holocaust which mr fun is an ancestor of??? he is german, so there for he announced it, i should say he is a nazi which by association he did all that to.

[Ben Kenobi]

Comrade, what does that have to do with the Confederate flag?

I don't see the folks who are there waving the flag.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski

how is that different then the german holocaust which mr fun is an ancestor of??? he is german, so there for he announced it, i should say he is a nazi which by association he did all that to.

Oh, it appears that I made a mistake. Please, point me to where he flies the flag of Nazi Germany and I will deliver my most sincere apologies

Comrade, what does that have to do with the Confederate flag?

I don't see the folks who are there waving the flag.

I can see how a Canadian may be ignorant of American history. It is no shame In US history, there was once a state that declared itself independent of the rule of the United States partially in order to preserve its own slavery. This area of the United States (which would later style itself the "Confederate States of America") had a strong history of slavery, and even from the beginning these states were predominately "slave" states (as opposed to the "free" states that remained in the Union).
This entity, that so strongly wanted to preserve that system, created the Confederate flag (hence the name). Because of this, many people today associate the flag of the Confederate States of America with the Confederate States of America

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by MrFun
One of them I have worked with as a co-intern while I was still taking classes at Eastern Illinois University; she and I got along fine and dandy. Not to mention that I have this infatuation with a Southerner -- Tim McGraw.

Hey, I ain't got no prejudice, man. Hell, some of mah best buddies is Southerners!

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
how is that different then the german holocaust which mr fun is an ancestor of??? he is german, so there for he announced it, i should say he is a nazi which by association he did all that to.

I'm surprised you can't see the difference, as it seems quite glaring to me.

People are born with German ancestry. People choose to wave flags.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by MrFun in reply to Slowwy (and a true quote, not LS-fakery)

You have me on Ignore, but I will answer for the benefit of the others on here.

I believe people have the right to burn the American flag but I find it repugnant. I believe people have the right to fly the Confederate flag, the symbol of white supremacy, but I also find that repugnant.

I think this is a concise summary of Mr Fun's position.

From here the key issue of debate is whether the flag is a symbol of white supremacy or not. Southerners are arguing that for many people who fly it, it's not a racist symbol, and that's it's bigotry to say that it is. Yankees are arguing (and have presented a lot of evidence for it) that the racist connections of the flag are undeniable, and that only ignorance or willful ignorance can explain the attempts to avoid this.

As I said earlier in the thread, I expect the enthusiasm for the flag in certain quarters is driven more by contemporary (negative) trends in identity politics rather than racism, but that is only the view of an outsider.

So, I don't think that Southerners who fly the flag are automatically racist scum, but nor do I think that those who point to the racist history of the flag are automatically bigots, certainly not while some defenders of the flag are insisting that it has never had anything to do with racism at all.

[MrFun]

BK or Mrs. Tubes -- explain to me how proud display of the Confederate flag to express "cultural pride" is already inclusive of black Southerners when it is clear that the vast majority of black Southerners find the Confederate flag blatantly offensive?

And I will stick to my argument that if you are not racist when proudly displaying the Confederate flag, then you are unwittingly or willfully ignorant about our country's history of race relations and our Civil War. So Mrs. Tubes, no, I do not believe that everyone who displays the Confederate flag is racist -- of course, it's possible for one to be a closeted racist, in light of the reality that blantant, unabashed forms of racism at least, is no longer socially acceptable outside of fringe groups.

[LordShiva]

One doesn't need to have traveled to Germany to know that the Nazi Swastika is anti-semitic.

[Jon Miller]

But the Nazi's did a lot of good, ended a bad recession/etc. Additionally the war was about German expansion/pride, not killing the Jews. Also, most Nazi's didn't kill any Jews at all..

The Nazi flag is German heritage, not anti-semiticism.

JM

[LordShiva]