The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Let me ask you a question.

I said 5% of the South owned slaves. I've shown this many times, in many threads McFun loves to start. It's never acknowledged. I took it from Northern sources, ignoring even looking at sources connected with the South.

Apparently you're wrong, mislead by proConfederate propaganda that has ever since tried to minimize the issue of slavery as the precipitating cause of the Civil War. Dr Ss link puts the lie to your BAM, so you should just give it up, unless you can google something that sez he wuz wrong.

25% of the South was aristocratic slave owners, ok?

Most of the people who owned slaves owned less than 30. Hardley denoating an aristocracy.

So your contention is that 75% of the South went rushing to the battlefield to protect the rights of the aristocrats. Using Doc's figures, that's stupid.
If you happened to accept mine, it's insane.

So you're a socialist now? That's what we've been saying for hundreds of years. It's insane to go die for the ruling classes wars, to protect their property and steal for their gain. But folks like you keep buying the BS and saying its about rights or freedom or UN resolution 1441 and going off to die to keep rich men rich and make them richer.

In 1861, Northern people, for the most part, were arrogant. Same as McFun is today.

And Southerners aren't? I ain't met a humble Southerner yet. I was laughed at for being born in Missouri and saying I was born in the South, so go screw your arrogant self.

They were so arrogant and dismissive of Southerners, civilians went on picnics with their children in attendance,to watch the first battle.

This was a very common practice in those days. Battles are entertainment for some. And in most wars, both sides are dismissive of the other side and think they will be whipped handily.

I would cite another proof to it not being racial to the point McFun keeps pushing, again 150 years after the fact. He calls it the Civil War.
In the South, it's called the War Between The States.

And that proves the war wasn't about slavery?

From the South's point of view, the war was over the dismissive arrogance of the North, not over the 25%* who owned slaves.

That's because you are the victims of a successful propaganda campaign to reglorify the Southern Cause. Today there are markers in SOLIDLY pro-union areas that commemorate the glorious Confederate cause. Some of the most pro-union areas of the old Confederacy are today some of the most neoConfederate. You might want to read a litte book called Lies Across America. There's a section on how the South changed its own history, just like Stalin painting people out of pictures.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
i am so tired of the white man over compensating this year for **** that happened 200 year ago. When does it end?

When did Jim Crow end again?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
Imnot tryng to beat a dead horse here

You're doing a damn fine job though.

but i have been reading some things on this issue

Uh oh.

and i have found this
che it indeed was a battle flag.

So are you willing then to admit that I was right and you are totally wrong, since that's what I've been writing for the last 200 years?

Neither here nor there,

So let's not drag it in then.

i have stated

Well I guess that settles it.

that the flag is deciphered by the person that sees it.

Meaning is given to a symbol first by those that create it. The false Confederate flag which so-called "rebels" fly was not created until thirty years after the Civil War. It is not the Battle Flag of the Army of Nothern Virgina. The Battle flag is square, with a white borderm, and anyone who took "pride" in their history and culture would know that.

Being from texas,I am not consisdered part of ths south we are just texas as is florida.

Depends on the part of Texas and the part of Florida. Florida was one of the original seven states to secede and had Jim Crow. Just because a lot of New Yorkers moved down here doesn't mean it isn't Southern. East Texas is very much a part of the South. It's a big state, with lots of regional variation.

Two states that are southern but not considered part of the south.

Southern arrogance, deciding who is or is not part of the club. Historically, both Texas and Florida are part of the South, as are the borders staes of Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware.

Anyway if by association u choose to say the flag is racist,

That association was made by white supremicists in the Klan and the Southern state legislatures who flew the flag to proclaim their opposition to Federally imposed desegregation. You can try and twist and squirm all you like, but the association was made by the leaders in the Southern states. Blame them.

then anyone can look at the normal looking white guy and say that is offensive cause his kind supported racisim and slavery. He is white and white people were involved.

There's a significant difference between a symbol and a human being. What you are saying is that if someone wanted to fly the swastika, it doesn't necessarily mean they want to kill Jews. The vast majority of people in the West wouldn't give a **** what you say, because you're displaying a symbol soaked in blood.

Well guess what. So is the "Confederate" flag. You can claim all you want that it isn't about white supremacy, but it was the flag of white supremacy and only of white supremacy for seventy years, before the Southern Pride movement began in the 70s. And it continues to be the flag of white supremacy today, despite what those who want to whitewash their past in the name of heritage and pride would have the ignorant believe. Some symbols can never be reclaimed. The Swastika is one. The "Confederate" flag is another.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Meaning is given to a symbol first by those that create it. The false Confederate flag which so-called "rebels" fly was not created until thirty years after the Civil War. It is not the Battle Flag of the Army of Nothern Virgina. The Battle flag is square, with a white borderm, and anyone who took "pride" in their history and culture would know that.

Well, given the South's utter lack of standardization I would not be too shocked if somewhere some Confederate unit used a rectangular one without the white border.

Well guess what. So is the "Confederate" flag. You can claim all you want that it isn't about white supremacy, but it was the flag of white supremacy and only of white supremacy for seventy years, before the Southern Pride movement began in the 70s. And it continues to be the flag of white supremacy today, despite what those who want to whitewash their past in the name of heritage and pride would have the ignorant believe. Some symbols can never be reclaimed. The Swastika is one. The "Confederate" flag is another.

As I said above the Sons of the Confederacy agree with you and have recently criticized a Virginia politician for posing with the Confederate battle flag.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And Southerners aren't? I ain't met a humble Southerner yet. I was laughed at for being born in Missouri and saying I was born in the South, so go screw your arrogant self.

Bite me.

[Drake Tungsten]

Missouri is totally a part of the South; as soon as you cross the border, a dozen Bible stations magically appear on your radio dial. It's disgusting...

[Mrs. Tuberski]

once again imnot considered part of the south!!! and the rebel flag means nothing to me. i dont see anything with other then the civil war. you can twist what you want its a freaking flag and thats it. If you chose to see it as white supremecy then thats ur ignorance not mine. i guess if someone was to use a white sheet to put on thier bed it would signfy kkk support. THat statement there was intended to be stupid cause thats how i see this arguement. The flag no more denotes racism then anythng i have heard. All this is, and i say again is asociation and if by assoication u want to say it is racism, then i say the same for white folks.

[flash9286]

Whats really sad is if Lincoln would have handled the aftermath of Fort Sumter better, some of the border states wouldn't have seceded. The confederate flag doesn't represent racism just because some ignorant people choose it to represent their views, too most people it's just a symbol that represents distinct southern culture.

[Nubclear]

The confederate flag doesn't represent racism just because some ignorant people choose it to represent their views,

Such as the government of the Confederate States of America

[chequita guevara]

Such as the majority of Southerners from 1915 to 1975?

What I find interesting is that people today like to think that the Klan was always a fringe group, as opposed to being at one time, one of the largest and most influential groups in the United States. People who claim heritage not hate have a memory hole, where the real history of the South went. They also completely ignore that the reason that after the 2nd Klan disappeared in the 1920s, it was the pro-Segregation Southern governments which represented the views of a majority of whites who ressurected the flag in order to show their opposition to desegregation.

That's the heritage. That's the truth. It's a heritage of hate. It's why it has the same chilling effect to people as the burning cross. Which is just another symbol. I guess people should ignore those too.

[chequita guevara]

The only good indian is a dead indian.

redskin
wetback
******

All those words are nothing but symbols. I guess people shouldn't be offended by them. Hell, I guess no one should ever be offended by anything, because apparently no symbol has any meaning whatsoever?

[flash9286]

symbols evolve and take on new meanings to people. Sorry you don't get to tell people what a symbol means to them.

The KKK also uses the cross as a symbol, am I suppose to think anybody with a cross necklace is a racist?

For example, the word ****** is and still is a racist term, but within some communities it used as a positive term, see it evolved and took on new meanings. The word redneck also follows this evoultion too.

[chequita guevara]

If it's the KKK's cross, damn straight.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Then a Gay turns around and generalizes about the South.

This does not refer to me.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by flash9286
symbols evolve and take on new meanings to people. Sorry you don't get to tell people what a symbol means to them.

Indeed! Hence, you really shouldn't be surprised when people start objecting after you fly any symbol that is commonly associated with some negative regieme