The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[Imran Siddiqui]

Dismissing arrogance?

You got to be ****ting me... if they were so dismissively arrogant, why would they elect Southerners to the Presidency? William Henry Harrison was from Virginia. James Polk was from Tennessee. Zachary Taylor was from Kentucky. That was in the 1840s. True the Presidents from the 1850s were Northerners (but each one of them had a Southerner for Vice President), but I fail to see how people who were dismissively arrogant would turn over the highest office of their country to the people they were so arrogant against.

It's just another Southern myth, I fear.

[SlowwHand]

Fear all you want.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by SlowwHand

25% of the South was aristocratic slave owners, ok?
So your contention is that 75% of the South went rushing to the battlefield to protect the rights of the aristocrats. Using Doc's figures, that's stupid.
If you happened to accept mine, it's insane.

Looks at wars of the 18th and 19th and even 20th centuries.. No, no it is not. I mean, look even at Iraq. It is sad to say, but the masses have been tricked into dying for the rights of the priviledged few over and over again in the last few hundred years.

Jon Miller

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hell, its better than fearing the truth as you do .

[Elok]

Sloww:

http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html

Posted by Strangelove several pages back, contradicts your claims several times based on the 1860 census (among other things). There's a fun editorial by a Southerner arguing passionately that ending slavery would destroy the South's economy, for example.

I really don't buy your "arrogance" story at all. If you start a bloody war with someone just because you don't like their attitude, you're freaking nuts and deserve their contempt. Pride is the worst reason I can think of for a war. Even worse than slavery, which at the root was just a matter of plain human greed. Greed at least corresponds to some physical reality. Pride is built on nothing but hot air.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

So are opinions for tht matter elok!! The point of this matter is what the flag flown for. if u see it as a racist symbol then it is indeed you who has bowed down and acepted that. I choose to see it differently, just as i see that not every german has a swastika or that evey white ane owned slaves.
I guess it never really occured to u that the flag stands for rebels and that the driver could have ben flying it cause he doesnt do what is normal on the track which makes him a rebel. Nope we all leap to our own beliefs of what is taught to us rather then accept things u cant change, that happend 200 years ago

[Nubclear]

Mrs. Tuberski, what do you think when you see the following:

[Mrs. Tuberski]

i think its nothign really!! and then after thinking i associate it with germany cause thats where i think it came from
what am i supposed to think of it?

[Nubclear]

You have absolutely no emotional reaction to it whatsoever?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

when are u guys gonna learn that white foks arent the ony ignorant ones in the bunch? Blacks and indians can be just as racist
i am so tired of the white man over compensating this year for **** that happened 200 year ago. When does it end?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

tass i have no emotions to it what so ever. im not black in not white, im not jewish, nor am i a racist. i happen to be what all of u talk about. mixed native american mexican and some white somewhere but look native american, MY point is i dont see the racial tenesions that are kept alive by this jive bull crap as a flag

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Let me ask you a question.

I said 5% of the South owned slaves. I've shown this many times, in many threads McFun loves to start. It's never acknowledged. I took it from Northern sources, ignoring even looking at sources connected with the South.

From somewhere, either an uncited source or a figure that stuck in his head somehow, Doc Strangelove thinks it was 25%. I'm not going to track down the sites again, nor am I going to argue percentages, because the sawbone's figure will suffice.

25% of the South was aristocratic slave owners, ok?
So your contention is that 75% of the South went rushing to the battlefield to protect the rights of the aristocrats. Using Doc's figures, that's stupid.
If you happened to accept mine, it's insane.

Gramps Troll pretty much had the reason. "Because you're down here."

In 1861, Northern people, for the most part, were arrogant. Same as McFun is today.
They were so arrogant and dismissive of Southerners, civilians went on picnics with their children in attendance,to watch the first battle. They ended up fleeing back to Washington.
Northerners listened to nothing people from the South had to say, like McFun doesn't today.

I would cite another proof to it not being racial to the point McFun keeps pushing, again 150 years after the fact. He calls it the Civil War.
In the South, it's called the War Between The States.

From the South's point of view, the war was over the dismissive arrogance of the North, not over the 25%* who owned slaves.

99 percent of what you have said here would be dismissed by professional historians, and it's not out of arrogance but out of knowledge gleaned from serious research.


And there is nothing absurd about the lower-class and middle-class going to war for the interest of the upper-class. In fact, sadly, this has been the norm in going to war, more often than not. The upper class churn out propaganda that gets the blood of the lower and middle classes boiling to the point that these classes of people will go to war for different reasons from that of the upper class.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Elok
Pride is the worst reason I can think of for a war.

QF 98 percent T

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
when are u guys gonna learn that white foks arent the ony ignorant ones in the bunch? Blacks and indians can be just as racist
i am so tired of the white man over compensating this year for **** that happened 200 year ago. When does it end?

What hypocritical nonsense. You moan and groan about wanting to "get over" the Civil War, when you are all about supporting proud display of the Confederate flag.

So I can throw your hypocritical righteousness right back at ya -- get over the Civil War already, and burn the Confederate flag.

[SlowwHand]

What bothers me the most on these type threads, by this particular person, is that I've always said people shouldn't make generalities about groups of peoples.
Maintained that Gays were just people. That it's a genetic condition, but they're people like any other person with the same emotions and thoughts as a straight. Then a Gay turns around and generalizes about the South.

I've made a point to say Muslims were good people. That it's radicals that bastardize the religion that cause the problems for all, including Muslims. Not to generalize.
A Muslim comes here and generalizes about the South.


I could say I'm not going to worry about it anymore, but I can't do that. I still believe it's wrong to generalize.

MrFun, you're just a punk, and it's got nothing to do with your gender preference.