The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[Jon Miller]

And I was born in Alabama.. and live in Virginia now..

JM

[SlowwHand]

Shiva, it helps to know how people are if you actually have been around them.

Numbnuts hasn't a clue.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I've been around Southerners for 4 years Sloww, and as a result of my job have been to the 1000 people town in Southern Georgia or North Carolina... and I agree with MrFun on this issue .

[Dr Strangelove]

As I said above even a major Confederate association agrees that displaying a Confederate battle flag is hurtful to black people. I presume that they would agree to displaying the flag in a historical context though.

[SlowwHand]

In a general statement, Imran? Go slow.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
I think we need a small reminder of what the Confederate flag still means to a great many people.

A random picture that could be white Southern racists, Nazis, or some of Stalin's finest?



At least attempt to show a flag. All you are trying to do is sensationalize a debate.

ACK!

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


I'm surprised you can't see the difference, as it seems quite glaring to me.

People are born with German ancestry. People choose to wave flags.

Are you choosing not to hear what im saying cause this isnt about picking and choosing here! I have stated and i will say this out loud and english since i was speaking that before, the confederate flag is a symbol sombody associates with racism here!!!! a german person may also be a symbol and if i want to be ignorant i can say he is a nazi cause thats what most people associate with germany. Its not hard to understand. I choose not to be ignorant and see him as the person he is now not by what his grand father 200 years ago did. The same should be said of this flag, if you assoicate it with slavery fine thats ur translation of what it realy means, its not hard to see that some folks dont see it that way. I for one dont see it as slavery thats all. I dont see the swastika either cause it means nothing to me. And to be honest when asked about my race, i say human if that aint good enough then i dont have another answer for you

[Ben Kenobi]

And I will stick to my argument that if you are not racist when proudly displaying the Confederate flag, then you are unwittingly or willfully ignorant about our country's history of race relations and our Civil War.

Perhaps the problem is not with the flag but the folks who co-opted the flag for other purposes. I don't see that the confederate flag was intended to be racist, it was to represent the south as a whole.

So Mrs. Tubes, no, I do not believe that everyone who displays the Confederate flag is racist -- of course, it's possible for one to be a closeted racist, in light of the reality that blantant, unabashed forms of racism at least, is no longer socially acceptable outside of fringe groups.

So what's the difference between a racist and a closeted racist?

I don't see how this dog is going to hunt. Either way you are accusing both me and the Mrs as being racists.

[SlowwHand]

Is there anyone out there going to tell me that condemning Muslims in total is less stupid that condemning Blacks in total? You see it all the time at ACS.
If so, here's your sign.

You have never heard me condemn a whole group of people based on color, religion, or gender preference.
The only group I've ever complained over is illegal aliens.
When I do, that isn't just Mexicans. It's Salvadorans, Peruvians, French, Greece, Britain.. I don't care where they came from.
Illegal aliens are a drain on society and a security concern. And it doesn't matter what damn color they are.

I've never in my life has any altercation with a Black person. So for some person sitting on his ass being judgemental as well as ignorant, well it pisses me off.

[Jon Miller]

Sloww.. two questions.

How do black people feel about that flag?

Why?

JM

[SlowwHand]

I don't know tha it's ever come up in conversation, to be honest.
If it were to come up, I think it would be discussed as a segment of the population.


EDIT: Let me add this. Even among Whites who favor flying that flag, I don't think all are against Blacks.
Moreso, I think they're against involvment by the federal government; and if their use is in fact traced back through history, the same feeling was present.

The North says it was and is about Blacks. I'm sitting here telling you, that isn't right. It was against the federal government. And I also say that slavery would have ended of it's own accord in the same amount of time we spilled brothers blood.

[Jon Miller]

Answer the questions.

JM

[SlowwHand]

I did. If I didn't answer how you wanted, tough.
If I did answer any more specifically, I'd be as stupid as MrFun, saying I know how they feel when I don't.

What do you want? Me to go down to the fair or something and take a poll?

[Jon Miller]

OK

Maybe you just don't talk to black people..

I know that I use to think similiarly to you. I thought that for the most part racism was dead, except for some stupid white trash.

But then I moved to the south, and when I go to church, I talk to and shake hands with (and maybe even hug?) people who were beat for being black. And I can tell you that they have very negative feelings about that flag.

While I still think that each succeeding generation is getting better, we have a long time ahead of us with a racist legacy.

JM

[Nubclear]

A random picture that could be white Southern racists, Nazis, or some of Stalin's finest?

Indeed, it is quite interesting that you say that - you are correct, it is very difficult to draw the distinction between the racists of the CSA, the racists of the Nazi regieme, or the murderers of Stalin's rule.

All you are trying to do is sensationalize a debate.

Because this sort of thing *never* occured in America

a german person may also be a symbol and if i want to be ignorant i can say he is a nazi cause thats what most people associate with germany. Its not hard to understand.

Indeed. However, there is a massive difference you fail to take into account:
A german person cannot choose whether or not to be German. Should he desire it, he cannot simply shed his skin and become Egyptian or Indian or Chinese.

A person *actively chooses* to fly a flag. They can choose whether or not to fly a flag, which flag to fly, etc. If they want to, they can take down the German flag and fly the Egyptian or Indian or Chinese flag instead.

Therefore, while there may be some who are offended by the presence of a German, there are more likely to be a great number of people who are offended by the presence of the flag of Nazi Germany, for instance.

It seems incredible to me that so many people here absolutely refuse to accept how evil the US, and particularly the CSA, was back then. Is it so much of a stretch to say that a flag associated with a regieme founded on the belief that black people are subhuman are going to be somewhat offended when a perosn flies it, and are going to be somewhat more inclined to judge that person as a racist?

Sure, not all people who fly it are flying it due to racism. Some fly it do to regional pride, belief in some other ideals (states rights, etc). But the fact remains that if you fly it, you will face at the very least some questioning by others, and this is perfectly fine because you are flying the flag of a regieme that stood to oppress millions upon millions of people.

I for one dont see it as slavery thats all. I dont see the swastika either cause it means nothing to me.

Good for you. Next time you travel out, would you be willing to maybe carry the Nazi German flag with you? It might be educational, to see how others react to it.
YOU may not see anything, and that may even be a desired state, but that hardly means that it is devoid of any meaning to others and that its wise to fly such symbols.