The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[SlowwHand]

Miz T., as regards MrFun, remember this.
“Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”~ Robert Heinlein

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Actually Arrian I'm a bit depressed about it all. I grew up born and bred up in yankee country. Love that area. Would go back in a heart beat if the conditions were right. All that being said my experiences show the continued slaps at the southern racism is more than a bit hypocritical considering self assured piety of the north.

I was one of those same self assured folk who were so convinced that the evil southerner deliverance types were crawling out of the woodwork. In retrospect and hindsight rural North east US is chock full of lilly white folk who talk about coloreds and ******s to this day without ever having the good fortune to actually deal with people of color. If anything the complete lack of racial homgeneity in the North East makes the situation more sustainable as opposed to the integration here in the south.

Go up North and a black man comes into town expect no one but no one to talk to him. Go down south and have a black man come into town, no big deal.

Seriously I am saddened because I don't see the situation changing up north anytime soon as people are heading out not in, so the likelihood of better integration in the north approaches nil.

AS for the inital issue that of the confederate flag, Being a northerner I think the whole flag thing stupid, but also realize people are allowed to be stupid and fly whatever flag they want. And no there are no parralels to the swasitka unless you want to say that slavery was akin to genocide. I'm not willing to go there.

I was shocked at how racist people in Lansing Michigan were when I moved there in 1969. Far worse than people in Arkansas from what I could tell. It changed my whole perception of true state of race relations in the U.S. The South gets the blame, but its really much more of an individual and local issue and very difficult to generalize about.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
I have to ask this question of MR FUN, cause it was a thing i saw today. Is ur objection for blacks cause of the KKK for them being black and slavery, or cause of the fact that they use the same symbols for their hate of homosexuality?

Can't he object for both reasons?

-Arrian

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
I have to ask this question of MR FUN, cause it was a thing i saw today. Is ur objection for blacks cause of the KKK for them being black and slavery, or cause of the fact that they use the same symbols for their hate of homosexuality?

I'm 82 percent German, 10 percent Native American, and 8 percent East Asian. I have no black ancestry in my family history.

I have always found the Ku Klux Klan morally unacceptable because of their racism along with their homophobic hatred.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Mr. Fun:

A friend had an idea that I thought was really clever.

Do you recognise these two symbols?



If you do, I think you would also recognise that they are variations on the Iron Cross of Imperial Germany.

Now the top one is from a clothing company, where is the bottom one from? Do you know?

I do not know off-hand.

[Arrian]

I'm 82 percent German, 10 percent Native American, and 8 percent East Asian.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Exact percentages?



-Arrian

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What promises that Fort Sumter would be evacuated?! The only time Lincoln spoke to it was that he would evacuate Sumter in return for Virginia's guarentee that they stay in the union.

Looks like your knowledge on this matter doesn't extend much past what wikipedia has to offer.

The convoy was sent after a message for the SC governor where Lincoln proclaimed they were restocking food and supplies and no arms or reinforcements unless the fort was attacked upon. There was no reason for SC to believe that there would be arms or reinforcements on the relief ships.

The Confederates had every reason to be suspicious of the convoy. For one thing, Lincoln's Secretary of State, William Seward, had promised them, and was still promising them, that the fort would be evacuated, even after he knew Lincoln had decided to send the convoy. So when the Confederates found out about the convoy, they naturally felt they had been tricked.

Furthermore, the Confederates knew that the convoy included warships, tons of ammo, and about 1,000 armed troops. Lincoln's notification to SC's governor contained a veiled threat that force would be used if the
Confederates resisted allowing the convoy to unload its cargo.

Furthermore by act of the South Carolina legislature, they ceeded that specific property to the federal government in 1836, so no claim could be had by the state:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/sumterownership.htm

All cessions are done with the implicit understanding that the ceded property will not be used to harm the state. Furthermore, under the principles of natural law to which our founding fathers appealed against the British, SC had the natural right to reclaim the fort once her citizens voted in convention to withdraw from the Union, as long as the state offered compensation for the fort that had been built--and SC did offer such compensation (so did the Confederacy).

Furthermore, do you consider that the country of Cuba can consider reinforcements to Guantanamo Bay to be an act of aggression by the United States? After all, Cuba claims that as a result of its revolution, it now owns that property and the US is illegally on it.

That's a totally different matter.

[Arrian]

How is that a totally different matter. And what is your source for Seward's promises? I'm genuinely interested in that, Cali.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Sounds like someone we know.

"I'm not afraid to die," I said. "I'm not afraid to live. I'm not afraid to fail. I'm not afraid to succeed. I'm not afraid to fall in love. I'm not afraid to be alone. I'm just afraid I might have to stop talking about myself for five minutes."
Friedman, Kinky (1993), When the cat's away. New York (Wings Books), 449

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
How is that a totally different matter. And what is your source for Seward's promises? I'm genuinely interested in that, Cali.

-Arrian

It is interesting that he hasn't linked to these promises. Furthermore, if Seward did promise evacuation, I wonder if Lincoln adopted them. After all, back then, inaugeration was in April and the firing on Sumpter was on April 12.

Furthermore, under the principles of natural law to which our founding fathers appealed against the British, SC had the natural right to reclaim the fort once her citizens voted in convention to withdraw from the Union, as long as the state offered compensation for the fort that had been built--and SC did offer such compensation

And this 'natural law' of reclaiming a fort given away freely is written down somewhere?

Forts have always been fought over and in every peace treaty included in the terms (transfer of X and all fortifications, etc, etc).

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Arrian


Are you ****ing kidding me? Exact percentages?



-Arrian

Those were the result from a DNA testing one of my siblings had. This is not to say that these test results are 100 percent accurate, but they are close enough.

[SlowwHand]

http://www.patriotic-flags.com

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Bite me.

Have we met?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Mr. Fun:

A friend had an idea that I thought was really clever.

Do you recognise these two symbols?



If you do, I think you would also recognise that they are variations on the Iron Cross of Imperial Germany.

Now the top one is from a clothing company, where is the bottom one from? Do you know?

It's a Klan symbol. White cross for the purity of our race and the drop of blood from Jesus.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Actually Arrian I'm a bit depressed about it all. I grew up born and bred up in yankee country. Love that area. Would go back in a heart beat if the conditions were right. All that being said my experiences show the continued slaps at the southern racism is more than a bit hypocritical considering self assured piety of the north.

No one's arguing here the the North ain't racist as hell. There are differences, however, and one of them is that we don't proudly display the past symbols of our racism. Hell, we view places like Bridgeport and Cicero an embarressment, not pride.

We don't proudly display our restrictive covenents. We don't put INNA signs (Irish / Italian Need Not Apply) in our windows and complain that people misunderstand our meaning. We would understand if a Chinese-American went into a store with a sign that said No Chinese or Dogs Allowed and felt like he wasn't wanted.