Massive demonstration right outside my window!

[MRT144]

if its a felony they dont have to force mandatory jail time do they? like felony criminal mischieff doesnt require jail time

[GePap]

Originally posted by MRT144
if its a felony they dont have to force mandatory jail time do they? like felony criminal mischieff doesnt require jail time

Imagine all the court time used for these "felonies" as opposed to say burglaries. Even if jail time is not mandatory, the ADA's time is not infinite, and neither is the time of the courts. Oh the backlogs...

And of course, if illegals see crimes happening, they will not report them since reporting crime means they will be deported or imprisoned, even if the extent of their "crime" is working for cheap.

[GePap]

And the Senate does it job by tempering the Xenophobia and passions of the House:

Senate Panel Approves Broad Immigration Reform Bill

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: March 27, 2006

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate Judiciary Committee approved sweeping election-year legislation Monday that clears the way for 11 million illegal aliens to seek U.S. citizenship, a victory for demonstrators who had spilled into the streets by the hundreds of thousands demanding better treatment for immigrants.

With a bipartisan coalition in control, the committee also voted down proposed criminal penalties on immigrants found to be in the country illegally. It approved a new temporary program allowing entry for 1.5 million workers seeking jobs in the agriculture industry.

"All Americans wanted fairness and they got it this evening," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., who played a pivotal role in drafting the legislation.

There was no immediate reaction from the White House, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. said he hoped President Bush would participate in efforts to fashion consensus legislation. "The only thing that's off the table is inaction," said Graham, who voted for the committee bill.

The 12-6 vote broke down along unusual lines, with a majority of the panel's Republicans opposed to the measure even though their party controls the Senate.

Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., seeking re-election this fall in his border state, said the bill offered amnesty to illegal immigrants, and sought unsuccessfully to insert tougher provisions. He told fellow committee members that the economy would turn sour some day and Americans workers would want the jobs that now go to illegal immigrants. They will ask, "how could you have let this happen," he added.

Committee chairman Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania was one of four Republicans to support the bill, but he signaled strongly that some of the more controversial provisions could well be changed when the measure reaches the Senate floor. That is "very frequently" the case when efforts to reach a broad bipartisan compromise falter, he noted.

In general, the bill is designed to strengthen enforcement of U.S. borders, regulate the flow into the country of so-called guest workers and determine the legal future of the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the United States illegally.

The bill would double the Border Patrol and authorizes a "virtual wall" of unmanned vehicles, cameras and censors to monitor the U.S.-Mexico border.

It also allows more visas for nurses and agriculture workers, and shelters humanitarian organizations from prosecution if they provide non-emergency assistance to illegal residents.

The most controversial provision would permit illegal aliens currently in the country to apply for citizenship without first having to return home, a process that would take at least six years or more. They would have to pay a fine, learn English, study American civics, demonstrate they had paid their taxes and take their place behind other applicants for citizenship, according to aides to Kennedy.

"Well over 60 percent of Americans in all the polls I see think it's OK to have temporary workers, but you do not have to make them citizens," said Kyl.

"We have a fundamental difference between the way you look at them and the way I look at them," Kennedy observed later.

Arizona GOP Sen. John McCain, a potential presidential contender who worked with Kennedy on the issue, told reporters the street demonstrations had made an impact. "All those people who were demonstrating are not here illegally. They are the children and grandchildren" of those who may have been, he said.

The committee met as several thousand demonstrators rallied at the foot of the Capitol. Many were members of the clergy who donned handcuffs and sang "We Shall Overcome," the unofficial anthem of the civil rights era.

After a weekend of enormous rallies -- a crowd of as many as 500,000 demonstrators in Los Angeles -- thousands of students walked out of class in California and Texas to protest proposals to crack down on illegal immigrants.

"Do you see the community? Do you see how many people didn't go to work today," asked Janet Padron, attending a rally in Michigan.

Her remark underscored one of the issue's complexities.

Senators on all sides of the issue agreed that illegal workers hold thousands of jobs that otherwise would go unfilled at the wages offered.

The agriculture industry is "almost entirely dependent on undocumented workers," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.

In purely political terms, the issue threatened to fracture Republicans as they head into the midterm election campaign -- one group eager to make labor readily available for low-wage jobs in industries such as agriculture, construction and meatpacking, the other determined to place a higher emphasis on law enforcement.

That was a split Bush was hoping to avoid after a political career spent building support for himself and his party from the fast-growing Hispanic population.

"America should not have to choose between being a welcoming society and being a lawful society," Bush said at a naturalization ceremony for new citizens. "We can be both at the same time."

Bush has said he favors a guest worker program, but it is unclear whether the administration would insist on a provision to require illegal immigrants already in the country to return home before they are allowed to apply for citizenship.

At several critical points, committee Democrats showed unity while Republicans splintered. In general, Graham, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas and Sen. Mike DeWine of Ohio, who is seeking re-election this fall, voted with the Democrats. That created a majority that allowed them to shape the bill to their liking.

Feinstein won approval for the five-year program to permit as many as 1.5 million agriculture workers into the country. "It will provide the agriculture industry with a legal work force and offer agriculture workers a path to citizenship," she said. The vote was 11-5, with Republicans casting all the votes in opposition.

Kennedy prevailed on a proposal to allow an additional 400,000 green cards for future immigrants, regardless of the industry where they find jobs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/politics/27wire-immig.html?hp&ex=1143522000&en=affabd2a645e6aac&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[GePap]

its funny seeing the different passions within the modern Republican party working against each other on an issue.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by GePap


Imagine all the court time used for these "felonies" as opposed to say burglaries. Even if jail time is not mandatory, the ADA's time is not infinite, and neither is the time of the courts. Oh the backlogs...

And of course, if illegals see crimes happening, they will not report them since reporting crime means they will be deported or imprisoned, even if the extent of their "crime" is working for cheap.

huge fines. i want huge fines.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, like they are going to be able to pay huge fines!

[Dis]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, like they are going to be able to pay huge fines!

make em work in the fields to pay them off.

[ajbera]

Or threaten to use a giant catapult to fling them back to Mexico.

[DinoDoc]

Why don't they just call it amnesty and be done with it? The pretense of a guest worker program in absense of anything meaningful done on border security is obscene.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, like they are going to be able to pay huge fines!

dis guessed the second part of it

[DaShi]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why don't they just call it amnesty and be done with it? The pretense of a guest worker program in absense of anything meaningful done on border security is obscene.

I agree. Immigration shouldn't be the primary issue here. Border security should be.

[Dinner]

More then likely the Senate will simply ignore the retoric of the House. Either that or they will moderate it and it will be watered down so much that not much will change.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why don't they just call it amnesty and be done with it? The pretense of a guest worker program in absense of anything meaningful done on border security is obscene.

I think its a fair bet that once the House and Senate have to reconcile their bills, all that will be left is a general amnesty and more money for border security -- which means we'll get to do this all over again in 15-20 years.

[Drake Tungsten]

From a U.S. standpoint, it's better to have a five man work crew composed of a Sri Lankan, an Ethiopian, a Moldova, a Congan, and a Mexican than it is to have a work crew with 4 Mexicans and one Salvadoran. The reason is that the only thing that the first group has in common is American culture, while the second group can live their entire lives without ever adopting our culture if they so choose. Mixed culture helps speed American immigration. We're in danger of creating a bifurcated culture.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by DaShi
I agree. Immigration shouldn't be the primary issue here. Border security should be.

You'll pardon me if I'm a little sceptical of this bill in light of the 1986 amnesty which passed on phantom promises of more enforcement. I would be a little more hopeful if the final bill included a massive increase in the fines leavied against employers (even for a first offense) caught with illegals in addition to any guest worker program and the promised "virtual wall" at the border with Mexico. But so far I haven't seen any mention of it and won't hold my breath.