Massive demonstration right outside my window!

[Zkribbler]

It'll be nasty. The Repugnicants are split right down the middle.

Business owners want cheap labor; Rednecks want the illegals cast out into the outer darkness to wail and gnash their teeth.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Rednecks want the illegals cast out into the outer darkness to wail and gnash their teeth.

Otherwise known as sending them home? Why's that "sending them into the outer darkness?" There are worse places in this world than Mexico... and thanks to the illegals, people from those worse places don't have a fair chance of entry into this country.

Besides, this splits the Dems, too. The Democrats used to be the party of the working man. The working class, socially conservative Democrats who still vote Democrat are against the illegals as much as the socially conservative Republicans (as Timex points out).

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Wycoff
Otherwise known as sending them home? Why's that "sending them into the outer darkness?" There are worse places in this world than Mexico...

I was waxing poetic I meant sending them to a place with no hope.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Timexwatch
It looks like there's a big clevage to be exploited in the labor movement if the Republicans are clever enough.

I don't think that the Repubs can capitalize on the cleavage in labor. For the Republicans in charge, immigration is an economic issue. They're not going to compromise on that with the socially conservative democrats.

This country really needs 3 or 4 parties. You could have the The big business Republicans, the conservative working class party (for people like Sensenbrenner, Tancredo, Buchanan, and Perot), the Democratic party, and a Libertarian party.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I was waxing poetic I meant sending them to a place with no hope.

I know what you meant. I'm asking you why Mexico is more hopeless than Rwanda or Somalia. Why are Mexicans specially entitled to be here?

[Zkribbler]

Besides, this splits the Dems, too. The Democrats used to be the party of the working man. The working class, socially conservative Democrats who still vote Democrat are against the illegals as much as the socially conservative Republicans (as Timex points out).

That's a very good point.

55% of the electorate is the white, working class -- people without college degrees. As they go, so goes the elections. Can you spell Reagan Democrat?

They do tend to be socially conservative, and Starbuck Dems tend to ignore them and drive them into the tent of the rich Republicans (who IMHO economically exploit the begeezus out of them).

[Dinner]

My 10,000 foot level quick gut feeling is that the Congressional Republicans are looking for an issue to moblize their conservative base in an election year where the polls are all going against them. Otherwise why bring this issue up now? The big business Republicans don't want the issue dealt with out of fear their cheap labor will dry up while the border area Republicans in Congress are afraid of losing latino votes due to this issue. It seems that the nationalist Republicans are trying to recreate a prop 187 style voter shift based upon this issue.

Anyone think this is close to reality?

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Starbuck Dems tend to ignore them and drive them into the tent of the rich Republicans (who IMHO economically exploit the begeezus out of them).

This is the biggest failing of our system, IMO. I really think that, if there were proportional representation, then there would be a Perot type party regulary garnering 25-35% of the vote.

As things stand, I think that all this immigration will do is make the working class conservative more politically apathetic and generally resentful of the system. I have a feeling that in solving this immigration problem, the Repubs will reveal the true power behind the throne: the big business elite. This will underscore that the Repubs are just manipulating the working class vote. Maybe the whole "religion card" will be enough to keep most poor conservatives voting Republican, but I'm not completely sure.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Otherwise why bring this issue up now? The big business Republicans don't want the issue dealt with out of fear their cheap labor will dry up while the border area Republicans in Congress are afraid of losing latino votes due to this issue. It seems that the nationalist Republicans are trying to recreate a prop 187 style voter shift based upon this issue.

Anyone think this is close to reality?

I think that it's more a factor that the natural rifts inside the Republican party are starting to show. Previously, Bush's popularity and the war on terror was able to unify them. Now, as the Bush Admin. seems to be going down the toilet, partisans inside the party are taking shots at each other. I think that the Republican party is really a coalition of at least 3 or 4 groups: big business Libertarians, metropolitan neo cons, and nationalistic paleo-cons. The religionistas may be another distinct group, or they may be subsumed into the paleo-con group. I'm not completely sure. The House Bill seemed to be the nationalistic paleo-cons drawing a line in the sand.

[Zkribbler]

I agree.

While the multiparty system of Europe requires their political parties to form coalitions in order to rule, in the U.S., coalitions are formed within our two parties. But, as with any coalition, the natual centrifical force of differing agendas will eventually rip it apart.

Reagan did this to the Dems in 1980, by peeling off the South and the white working class. Now, with the plummetting of W's popularity the natual rifts in the Repugnacans are starting to widen.

With the Dems be smart enuf to capitalize on this and seize power? No way!

[Kidlicious]

Ok, how many of these protestors are kids. I just found out this morning that a bunch of kids are protesting in Fresno just to get out of school. I taught these kids when I was a student teacher. Trust me, they have no idea what they are talking about.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wycoff


I hate to agree with O'Reilly

Well, you're officially a nut then.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Ok, how many of these protestors are kids.

Over the weekend: there were very few kids.
Monday & Tuesday: exclusively kids walking out of school
Today: I haven't heard or seen any demonstations.

[Barnabas]

I would like to see the wall between the usa and mexico made, because that would completely kill the free trade area of the americas project.

[Kidlicious]

You guys do know that there are already tunnels under the fence don't you?