Massive demonstration right outside my window!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DanS
It appears that the protestors want to communicate defiance by waving the Mexican flag.

The same way that neo-Confederates are defiant by waving the Confederate flag?

[DanS]

No, not in the same way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The question is who is the intended target? Sure Congressman will pay attention to those outraged over this, but also realize that many Mexican American citizens share the views that the protestors have, and they are a pretty sizable voting population in some areas.

I think the end result is that they merely wanted people to note the awesome size of these protests. The Mexican flag waving was a way to get more press.. and press is what they want (a kind of "we're here, and we'll vote you *******s out"... well for the citizens anyway).

[Az]

Originally posted by MRT144
i want mexican immigrants waving a dual flag or something. im not blind to the fact that heritage is important to most people but thats something that becomes less important the more american you become

How is a flag a part of their heritage? Isn't a mexican flag a flag of a country they didn't particularly enjoy living in ( hence the migration)? and if they migrated for economical reasons only, and like living in the old country more, they shouldn't be coming, anyway...

[Ramo]

Why does it matter which flag they're waving? Seriously.

[Az]

It shows allegiance to a society. That they want to be citizens that participate in civil society and democratic processes, not just people who don't give a ****, and just want a job. It's not a matter of law, but certainly a matter of principle.

[Ramo]

It's Mexico, not Saudi Arabia or North Korea. It's not like they reject our ideas about a civil society or democracy.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ramo
It's Mexico, not Saudi Arabia or North Korea. It's not like they reject our ideas about a civil society or democracy.

But it pumps up the fear here that instead of making Mexico more like the U.S. (in the ways that they would like to), they intend instead to make the U.S. more like Mexico in ways the current U.S. citizenry will object to.

[Sikander]

Re: Re: 500,000 Immigrants March the Streets of LA

Originally posted by Wycoff

The whole "they're doing what Americans won't do" (or it's equivalent "they're doing the jobs white people won't do") thing is a myth or, at best, a half truth. Go to rural America. Who's working those jobs? White people (*gasp*). This line of argumentation really is "these people work more cheaply than Americans," and it just serves as a way to undercut American workers.

True, and the fact that Ted disagrees with you reinforces the correct nature of the post.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by DanS
It appears that the protestors want to communicate defiance by waving the Mexican flag. Or maybe they're trying to show pride in their heritage. But either way, their intended audience will take it a certain way that isn't positive for their cause.

Who is organizing these protests?

The Catholic Church according to the New York Times. They should be expending their efforts trying to replace Arab immigration into the EU with immigrant from Latin America rather than trying to turn the U.S. into a predominantly Catholic rather than a predominantly Protestant country. Bastards.

[Sikander]

I'm all for legal immigration btw. It should be increased a bit to make up for all the people we should deport because they came here illegally. The bottom line is that we get to decide who gets to live here and in what numbers. If we don't want to allow people from one culture to illegally take all the places for all the law abiding would be immigrants from all over the world, then we don't have to do so. If there were protests in favor of the policy I set forth above they'd make these look like a joke.

[Datajack Franit]

Immigration happens. Whether you like more Mexicans or Arabs, that's your choice.

[Az]

It's Mexico, not Saudi Arabia or North Korea. It's not like they reject our ideas about a civil society or democracy.

I was referring to participating in American civil society, not civil society in general. It's a simple question of did they come to work in the country, or be a genuine part of the country, as well as let the country be a part of them.

Though people with NK or KSA flags marching around would be sweet, and hilarious.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Sikander
The Catholic Church according to the New York Times. They should be expending their efforts trying to replace Arab immigration into the EU with immigrant from Latin America rather than trying to turn the U.S. into a predominantly Catholic rather than a predominantly Protestant country. Bastards.

I think the church is inadvertently playing into those fears. In truth, the church does precious little to turn the US into a predominately catholic country. Or put another way, if the church is trying to make the US into a predominately catholic country, it's doing a piss poor job of it.

In any event, I thought we had pretty much flushed catholic sympathies with communists down the drain. JPII must be turning over in his grave, if not.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Sikander
I'm all for legal immigration btw. It should be increased a bit to make up for all the people we should deport because they came here illegally. The bottom line is that we get to decide who gets to live here and in what numbers. If we don't want to allow people from one culture to illegally take all the places for all the law abiding would be immigrants from all over the world, then we don't have to do so.

Exactly. What makes the Mexicans so entitled to immigrate here? The whole argument is that the illegals deserve to be here because they were "looking for a better life." While it's true that the U.S. has a higher quality of living than Mexico, there are plenty of places in this world worse than Mexico. How about Somalia, Rwanda, Congo, Sri Lanka, Ethiopia, Moldova, etc. Why doesn't that argument ring more true for people from those hell holes than it does for Mexicans? Every illegal immigrant takes the place of a potential refugee from these countries. If we're treating admission into the country as some sort of freedom and human rights gold standard (which those on the pro-illegal front tend to do), then isn't our current system, which allows an overwhelmingly disproportionate number of Hispanics into this country, racially biased?

From a U.S. standpoint, it's better to have a five man work crew composed of a Sri Lankan, an Ethiopian, a Moldova, a Congan, and a Mexican than it is to have a work crew with 4 Mexicans and one Salvadoran. The reason is that the only thing that the first group has in common is American culture, while the second group can live their entire lives without ever adopting our culture if they so choose. Mixed culture helps speed American immigration. We're in danger of creating a bifurcated culture.

Another twist is that, though America is a nation of immigrants, we've never before had this type of immigration. This is the first time that we've had a vast majority immigrating here speaking 1 distinct language, immigrating from a bordering state with which we have a troubled history. Some of the La Raza fringe harbor a Lebensraum irredentist mentality about the whole matter... orchestrating a Mexican Reconquista. Though I'm not saying that this is a mainstream ideology, it is an ideology that is held by some of the more radical pro-Mexican immigration activists.

Finally, massive illegal immigration into the U.S. provides a release valve for Mexican politics, ensuring that the corrupt & incompetant Mexican government doesn't have to be help accountable. Rather than improve his country, that scumbag Vincente Fox has the government print guides on how to illegally immigrate to the U.S., and he actively encourages people to do so and send the money back to Mexico. Cutting off the easy flow into the U.S. would mean that the Mexican government would once again have to be held accountable by its people. Maybe this would spur reform in Mexico and allow it to be a true partner with the U.S. and Canada.

I believe that there are good arguments for immigration. I'm not a troglodyte. However, I don't think that there's a reasonable justification for the current illegal immigration situation. I consider these marches more of an expression of Mexican racial nationalism (La Raza... imagine if there were a German American political action group called "Das Volk") than of a campaign advancing some kind of positive social justice.