"I say slack off a little, in the interest of workers everywhere."

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm boosting my mental accumen by engaging in stimulating debate... what?

What exactly are you stimulating Immy?

[Ben Kenobi]

I have at times worked 12-hour days and more, either because I needed the money or because I believed in what I was doing.

This I think is the most important part of the whole piece. Why are the workers being exploited, if they work long hours to make good money?

[Zkribbler]

[Norma Rae mode]
UNION!
[/Norma Rae mode]

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


This I think is the most important part of the whole piece. Why are the workers being exploited, if they work long hours to make good money?

Can you rephrase that into something I can actually parse?

[Ben Kenobi]

If the workers choose to work long hours to make more money, how are they being exploited? Exploitation implies coercion, and the lack of choice.

[chequita guevara]

Because they are coerced by needing the money in the first place. If our jobs paid what they were worth, we wouldn't need to overwork ourselves.

[chequita guevara]

The Apolyton Communist Party is accepting new recruits.

[Provost Harrison]

Too damn right. I work for a company that is very 'corporate' in it's approach. I work hard, yet they always want more, they always want to cut costs by getting rid of people, despite the fact the company makes record profits. So yeah, I think it is time that we started to organise more, to resist the continual crap.

And despite the fact of how hard I work, I can't afford to buy a house and as for pensions, I put money away but God knows if that is going to be enough because of the way that society is structuring itself...all I can see is that something is going to give eventually...

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If the workers choose to work long hours to make more money, how are they being exploited? Exploitation implies coercion, and the lack of choice.

The thing that seems to be escaping you is that this is about salaried employees, not hourly-wage workers. They don't make any more money if they stay at their desks until 9 instead of going home at 5; they don't make any more money if they spend Saturday in the office instead of in the park, nor if they spend time in bed with their spreadsheets rather than their spouses. There is no such thing as overtime in the white-collar world.

So why do it? The point is that they don't have a choice, except to quit. Nobody I know who works a twelve-hour day would characterize themselves as choosing that day. They would all readily admit that

1) They say yes to insane working hours because they're afraid not to -- afraid of losing the boss's respect, losing a promotion, even losing their job

2) They don't get much more accomplished in a 12-hour day than they do in an eight-hour day.

(Fun fact: Nations like France and the Netherlands, with their shorter working days and more generous vacation policies, are actually more productive than the US on a per-capita basis).

This is not about economic utility; it's about the same, insane American cult of work which gives us fewer vacations than anyone else in the West and -- not coincidently, I believe -- one of the shorter life spans of any industrialized nation.

Again I say: To the barricades!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If our jobs paid what they were worth

Wouldn't you be starving to death by your own admission if that were the case?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Wouldn't you be starving to death by your own admission if that were the case?

Darn it, Dino Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

It occurs to me that if the Democrats had any brains or vision at all (and, yes, that's a very big if), the whole first half of this piece -- up to an including the one-sentence paragraph, "We must begin to bring democratic principles into the workplace " -- would be their party mantra in 2008.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by duke o' york


Yes, you can learn stuff like "Acumen is only spelt with one C." Keep up the good work!
[insert Japher's cool catch phrase here]

DON'T GET IT TWISTED!

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
It occurs to me that if the Democrats had any brains or vision at all (and, yes, that's a very big if), the whole first half of this piece -- up to an including the one-sentence paragraph, "We must begin to bring democratic principles into the workplace " -- would be their party mantra in 2008.

I agree.


That's an angle they can do.

Worker quality of life keeps deteriorating, some of this comes from a stagnant economy, some of it comes from the continuing profits at all cost mentality BS.

Health care costs keep going up and taking a chunk out of the paycheck.

[Ted Striker]

I don't know if Clinton had the foresight when he tried to get Universal Healthcare passed 10 years ago.

Maybe the goal then was just to cover the uninsured.

But now that healthcare costs are becoming an issue for people who ARE insured (aka PEOPLE REACTIONARIES ACTUALLY THINK THEY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT), the healthcare issue can be revisited as an issue that may be mature enough to be addressed at the national level.