Focus on the Family on how to prevent gayness

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Flubber
My son will never see a hand raised in anger

[Ben Kenobi]

Flubber:

Just make sure you ain't quoting me when you mean to quote the FotF article.

I might dispute the use of the word "normal" but in my head I choose to amend it to " normal heterosexual or homosexual manhood"

Which raises the interesting question of what lies outside 'normal' male behaviour for you Flubber.

I find it interesting your antipathy towards violence and the broad term labelled 'homophobia'. I don't equate the two, and nor do I think most wife beaters are homophobes.

[Ben Kenobi]

Being a wife-beater usually comes from the idea that your "male role" allows you to beat your woman. It's a gender role pushed to the extreme.

An extreme adhesion to gender roles bears homophobia in itself, along with intolerance toward all kinds of behaviours that don't fit gender roles.

So wifebeating and homophobia are really one and the same? Symptoms of the same problem?

What if I were to argue a man who was secure in his role would never want to lay a hand on his wife?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Flubber


Exactly-- There are gay jocks, fighters, wrestlers, footballers-- the most masculine of men-- heck aren't their a fairly high number of gay bodybuilders?

You're implying there are bodybuilders who are not gay?

[boann]

i thought nothing could shock me anymore.
reading this is a new low
i can't believe someone would really believe this crap.

on the other hand... i found out from reading this im probably a lesbian .... isn't that great news.
since i like to wear mens clothing.. jeans and tshirt
are my favorite attaire. my best friend is a male.
and most of my online friends are male. humm
guess ive been in denial.

what a crock of BS .. and their headquarters is in the town i live in.
i think i need to write him a long letter.. go camp on his doorstep till he talks to me .. this is such nonsense.

im ashamed to be associated in any manner with these stupid christians. my faith is defiled with their stupidness.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Flubber:

Just make sure you ain't quoting me when you mean to quote the FotF article.

Fixed-- Sorry about that-- I'd forgotten about the "posted by" piece and I just wanted to put the article bits inside quotes

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi



Which raises the interesting question of what lies outside 'normal' male behaviour for you Flubber.

Not that interesting really. If my son grows up to be a productive contributing member of society that can treat all people with respect -- I frankly don't care which gender he has sex with

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I find it interesting your antipathy towards violence and the broad term labelled 'homophobia'. I don't equate the two, and nor do I think most wife beaters are homophobes.

Maybe. maybe not . As you so homophobe is a pretty broad term and here I could have specified more but what I was getting to was the type of person that might beat a gay person simply because they are gay. I DO think that a person that will be violent in one circumstance is more likely to be violent in another

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So wifebeating and homophobia are really one and the same? Symptoms of the same problem?

They don't systematically stem from the same problem (homophobia can come from closeted homosexuality, while wife-beating can come from a generally violent behaviour).
However, they can be the symptoms of the same problem, and many societies where wife-beating is accepted are also extremely homophobic.

What if I were to argue a man who was secure in his role would never want to lay a hand on his wife?

That's your definition of a male role. If you were a Saudi husband, you'd believe that it's just as normal to "educate" your wife as you do your children. That's your job as the leader of the family.

[Ben Kenobi]

Flubber:

I'd forgotten about the "posted by" piece and I just wanted to put the article bits inside

np, I got a chuckle out of that

Not that interesting really. If my son grows up to be a productive contributing member of society that can treat all people with respect -- I frankly don't care which gender he has sex with

Fair enough. It's just that if you are going to use a term like 'normal' that means there must be some things that are abnormal.

As you so homophobe is a pretty broad term and here I could have specified more but what I was getting to was the type of person that might beat a gay person simply because they are gay.

Agreed, but I don't think the majority of folks who use the term 'homophobe' would narrow the definition to include only those who physically harm gay people just because they are gay. Your definition makes more sense to me, than the broader one.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


So wifebeating and homophobia are really one and the same? Symptoms of the same problem?

well yes-- I think a person that beats his wife or gay-bashes has a problem with their use of violence ! Also my definition of homophobe is

a person who hates or fears homosexual people


A person that simply thinks it is wrong or immoral or whatever, does not qualify.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Spiffor

OH and spiffor- I don't see the need for thumbs up here. I think it sad actually that what I consider such an obvious thing would not be the usual thing in all households. I was never physically punished yet my parents were some of the strictest around.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi




Agreed, but I don't think the majority of folks who use the term 'homophobe' would narrow the definition to include only those who physically harm gay people just because they are gay. You definition makes more sense to me, than the broader one.

To me a homophobe isn't someone that necessarily HAS harmed a gay person. The definition I used was from dictionary.com BTW. But when I see words like "hate", that goes beyond mere dislike or disapproval. That to me makes a homophone the type of person that would wish harm on a gay person for being gay.

Put simply I don't think the 105 lb homophobe is any less homophobic if he has prudently never actually taken a swing at someone

[Last Conformist]

Here in the civilized world, physical punishment of children is illegal.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Here in the civilized world, physical punishment of children is illegal.

But be realistic. Is the state there every time a 2 or 3 year old gets their buns smacked??

NOPE.

[Japher]

physical punishment is illegal? how do repremand a kid?

[Az]

Psychological torture, like here in the enlightened world


On the article:

This reminds me this duscussion I had with Mr. Fun the other day about nature and nurture in homosexuality. This article is a perfect example of how not to approach the issue. From what I've seen, homosexuality is affected a lot by the upbringing, but this just shows how far we are from fully understanding the forces shaping sexual attraction in the human brain.