American problems and solutions

[nationalist]

This website estimates that 7 million illegal immigrants entered the U.S. in the 90s, with 69% of them coming from Mexico.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E1150705%257E,00.html

This is a very interesting article detailing some of the problems that I have been talking about.

[Jules]

nationalist:

Do you really describe yourself as a fascist? Because I didn't get that from your original post at all. Rather I would describe you by your username, which doesn't equate to fascism IMO. Your views seem consistent with the Old Right rather than today's neoconservatism because of your producerism and anti-imperialism stances.

[nationalist]

If you add in 7 million illegal immigrants, you get a foreign born population of around 13.1% for the U.S.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Jules
nationalist:

Do you really describe yourself as a fascist? Because I didn't get that from your original post at all. Rather I would describe you by your username, which doesn't equate to fascism IMO. Your views seem consistent with the Old Right rather than today's neoconservatism because of your producerism and anti-imperialism stances.

You're partially right about that. However, most people don't understand the difference. I am a Nationalist,something that most people equate to a fascist, especially in America, where people simply equate right with Republicans. I am most definately not a Republican, and most Americans don't know what a Nationalist is. I am very "conservative" or right wing on social issues. However, I am a supporter of labor and unions and am moderately left on economic issues. Overall, my beliefs are more authoritarian than the "Old Conservatives", and I completely oppose the old view about the benefits of a laissez-faire market. I am pretty far right socially, and moderately left economically. I call that position as being a Nationalst, some call it Fascist, others Populist (although people call Michael Moore a Populist, and we definately disagree)

[ajbera]

I had to do research for work once (credit card research) that Mexicans here in the states send approx. $8 billion annually back to their families in Mexico.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you add in 7 million illegal immigrants, you get a foreign born population of around 13.1% for the U.S.

nationalist:

Still nowhere near Canada at 18% legal immigration, since we get plenty of illegal refugees. Definitely less than the US, since the majority of your illegal refugees cross the land border into the US.

Besides, you are not calling to restrict only illegal immigration, but also legal immigration as well.

Also, you have to remember, that if Canada were to close borders, we would have a shrinking labour force, similar to that already seen in Germany and many parts of Europe. How is it beneficial for those who are left, if there are not enough workers to sustain the businesses?

Sure, I agree with your stance that free trade can harm workers, but look at the alternative. If you erect barriers, you will decrease the productivity of American workers. This is why the US should implement free trade with respect to lumber, to provide an incentive for American companies to upgrade their mills.

If the US does not use tariffs to improve the productivity of protected industries, then they will fall farther and farther behind the rest of the world.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by obiwan18
Besides, you are not calling to restrict only illegal immigration, but also legal immigration as well.

We should only restrict legal immigration until we get our incompetent INS back on track. (Read my first part about giving visas to terrorists). After that, we can resume legal immigration and asylum.

[Sava]

Wouldn't deporting millions be more costly than assimilating them? I'd much rather offer amnesty to these "illegals" and integrate them into American society. They no doubt have the work ethic and they went through a lot to get here. IMO, these people appreciate freedom and hard-work more than most Americans. After the US stopped Prohibition, it didn't go around punishing all the people that were violating the law. And the legalization didn't reward them for their "then-illegal" activity. IMO, these "illegal aliens" are made criminals because of the US's own ineptitude to handle its immigration.

Instead of closing the borders, I'd open them and use the government's resources to regulate immigration. I think it will be harder to keep people out and deporting "illegals" rather than keeping track of who's coming in.

And Floyd, where did your perception of public education come from? The US government doesn't have an office of propaganda that controls what is taught in public schools. The government simply funds the schools. And in a Democracy... (this may come to a surprise to you) the people control the government. Local school districts are under the control of the people who live in the districts. George Bush doesn't mandate what's taught across the nation.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Sava
Wouldn't deporting millions be more costly than assimilating them? I'd much rather offer amnesty to these "illegals" and integrate them into American society.

the problem is that many of these people don't want to be assimilated, they just sneak up for work. Couldn't care less about the country themselves. However, granting them citizenship means that we'd then have to start paying them things such as welfare and social security. We'd be rewarding them for breaking our laws and violating sovereignty. Amnesty grants only encourage more illegal immigrants to come over, and with things as they are now there would be nothing that we could do to stop it from happening.

[Sava]

Who said anything about citizenship? And with 3 million+ illegals in the US, how do you propose to deport them? Do you have any idea how much that would cost? Do you think all of these 3 million will come peacefully? Do you know what ethnic cleansing is? Didn't we accuse another country of doing the same thing? DIdn't we bomb them?

[Ben Kenobi]

We should only restrict legal immigration until we get our incompetent INS back on track. (Read my first part about giving visas to terrorists). After that, we can resume legal immigration and asylum.

At what point will the INS receive a sufficient passing grade? Surely they cannot keep out all terrorists, for in discarding potential terrorists, you will refuse a great deal of more valuable immigrants.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Sava
And with 3 million+ illegals in the US, how do you propose to deport them? Do you have any idea how much that would cost?

Probably less than the $78 billion that we are wasting on this war.

Do you think all of these 3 million will come peacefully?

I don't care. Do all criminals turn themselves in peacefully? If they forcefully resist, then they prove even further that they don't respect American authority and don't deserve to be here.

Do you know what ethnic cleansing is?

How is this ethnic cleansing. If a Brit is here illegaly, send him home.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by obiwan18

At what point will the INS receive a sufficient passing grade? Surely they cannot keep out all terrorists, for in discarding potential terrorists, you will refuse a great deal of more valuable immigrants.

The exact details would have to be worked out, but I'd say that it would have to develop a system in which it can find the whereabouts of any foreign guest without too much trouble.

[Sava]

Despite how you rationalize it to yourself, nationalist, it will be perceived as ethinic cleansing. There are probably over a million illegal hispanics. So is the army going to go into neighborhoods and rounding people up? How do you prove somebody is illegal or not? What about if this illegal immigrant has children born in the US? What if there is a large family, how do you choose who to deport if some are legal immigrants?

And personally, I don't think we should be turning America into a battlefield just to fight resisting illegal immigrants. If illegals fight back and are killed, how do you justify their deaths? Does illegal immigration warrant a death sentence?

Nationalist... you can't deport all illegal aliens. You might as well deal with them because they're here. And how do you justify saying that amnesty would encourage illegal immigration. The front door of the US reads "Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yurning to be free..." Don't you think that is what encourages people to come to the US?

[Odin]

Originally posted by Sava
Despite how you rationalize it to yourself, nationalist, it will be perceived as ethinic cleansing. There are probably over a million illegal hispanics. So is the army going to go into neighborhoods and rounding people up? How do you prove somebody is illegal or not? What about if this illegal immigrant has children born in the US? What if there is a large family, how do you choose who to deport if some are legal immigrants?

And personally, I don't think we should be turning America into a battlefield just to fight resisting illegal immigrants. If illegals fight back and are killed, how do you justify their deaths? Does illegal immigration warrant a death sentence?

Nationalist... you can't deport all illegal aliens. You might as well deal with them because they're here. And how do you justify saying that amnesty would encourage illegal immigration. The front door of the US reads "Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yurning to be free..." Don't you think that is what encourages people to come to the US?