American problems and solutions

[nationalist]

Originally posted by MrFun

Oh yeah -- Mussoulini was a swell guy who liked everyone who was different.

The interesting thing about Italian Fascism is the relative lack of political executions.In the tweny years of his Fascist regime there were only around 400-450 political execution, far, far fewer than those in the Nazi rgime, the Soviet Regime, the Maoist regime, or many other regimes.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Azazel
Why do you have problem with mexicans? is it a racial thing?

No, its the fact that they swarm into the country illegaly yet don't seem to want to assimaliate with the culture.

[Ramo]

I disagree with the entirety of the first post, what a suprise.

[Az]

nationalist: I can sort of see what do you mean by that, but as long as their general rules of behaviour and personal interaction won't vary from the "American" ones, why would you mind what food do they eat, what music they listen to, and what holidays do they celebrate ( or even what Diety they worship, though I don't believe in gods, god, goddess, or whatever)/

[nationalist]

No surprise here either. You'd probably really hate my socal ideas, as I'm sure that'd I'd disagree with you on everything.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Azazel
nationalist: I can sort of see what do you mean by that, but as long as their general rules of behaviour and personal interaction won't vary from the "American" ones, why would you mind what food do they eat, what music they listen to, and what holidays do they celebrate ( or even what Diety they worship, though I don't believe in gods, god, goddess, or whatever)/

I enjoy Mexican food, and I appreciate their religion (my girlfriend and half my family being Catholic)
My problem, aside from the fact that I hate their ignoring our laws and entering the country illegaly, is their language. I find that my government is forced more and more to accomidate the Spanish language. Some places are now officially bi-lingual. This didn't happen for my German and Slavic anscestors. Why should the Mexicans be treated any differently? I think it shows a disrespect to my country when people come illegally, and then refuse to use the language of the country. As a nation of diverse cultures and ideals the only thing that can possibly hold us together is a shared language. Take away that common bond, and the fabric that holds our nation will be in danger of rupturing.

[Ramo]

Free immigration really is the answer to the world's economic problems, much more so than free trade is. It allows the US' and other developed states' economies to grow, as well as providing remittances to the developing world for people who want to stay here and training for people want to return to their countries to start up new businesses.

As for immigrants speaking the "wrong" language, there have ALWAYS been non-English speaking immigrants. The recent wave of hispanic immigration is not substantially different. It is true that they do immigrate en masse and sometimes create Spanish-speaking enclaves, but this doesn't hurt anyone. Why the hell is it your business what language they speak? Why the hell is it your country any more than theirs? Get off your high horse.

[Az]

as well as providing remittances to the developing world for people who want to stay here and training for people want to return to their countries to start up new businesses.

That's pure bull, Ramo. . How many immigrants return to the countries of their origin? a tiny percentage.

[Jon Miller]

but see. all immegrants are like that

there are just a lot of hispanics

but there were a lot of Irish once upon a time also

Jon Miller

[Ramo]

That's pure bull, Ramo. . How many immigrants return to the countries of their origin? a tiny percentage.

Remittances aren't bull. They make up several times the money that international aid does. They provide very important capital for the third world. And yes, a lot of people return back to their countries of origins. I don't have any numbers on me and don't want to pull any out of my ass, but a suprisingly large amount does.

[Ben Kenobi]

Besides, I am not adovcating a complete end to legal immigration. I just think that there should be a moratorium on it until the INS is competent enough to protect the country.

That may take some time.

As for the 2x per capita, I'll see what I can dig up.

"
The proportion of foreign-born Canadians is at its highest in 70 years – though it still does not match the record high levels which prevailed during the first quarter of the last century. Canada's intake of immigrants has represented less than 1% of its total population through the nineties, while it hovered around 5% between 1911 and 1913. Nonetheless, at 18%, Canada's proportion of foreign-born citizens is the second highest in the world, topped only by Australia's 22%. In Toronto, which has received almost half of Canada's newest immigrants, about 44% of the population was born outside Canada.
"

http://www.ccsd.ca/pr/2003/diversity.htm

"
Since 1970, the foreign-born population of the United States has increased rapidly due to large-scale immigration, primarily from Latin America and Asia. The foreign-born population rose from 9.6 million in 1970 to 14.1 million in 1980 and to 19.8 million in 1990. The estimated foreign-born population in 1997 was 25.8 million. As a percentage of the total population, the foreign-born population increased from 4.7 percent in 1970 to 6.2 percent in 1980, to 7.9 percent in 1990, and to an estimated 9.7 percent in 1997.2"

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0029/twps0029.html

So not quite 2x, Canada having 18% foreign born, and the US having 9.7% foreign born.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Ramo
Free immigration really is the answer to the world's economic problems, much more so than free trade is. It allows the US' and other developed states' economies to grow, as well as providing remittances to the developing world for people who want to stay here and training for people want to return to their countries to start up new businesses.

B.S. This would merely bring the standard of living in the developing world down to a third world level, especially if the Libertarian ideal of "no minimum" wage is implemented.

As for immigrants speaking the "wrong" language, there have ALWAYS been non-English speaking immigrants.

Yet we haven't always had semi-official bi-lingualism. Older immigrants forced their children to learn English and assimilate into the culture. Now we bend over backwards to accomidate people who don't want to learn the language.

The recent wave of hispanic immigration is not substantially different.

It is in the fact that most of it is illegal.

Why the hell is it your business what language they speak?

It is my business if we have to spend millions of dollars making our government bi-lingual. It is if people in the cities can't effectively read road signs, public postings, etc., and become a danger to the community. It is if a particualr language group beginjs to split off and dominate certain parts of my nation.

Why the hell is it your country any more than theirs?

Well, because some of my anscestors conquered it hundreds of years ago, I was born here, and I pay taxes here. These illegal immigrants violate the sovereignty of the nation's borders and, obviously unregistered, don't pay taxes. Yet these illegals are crying out for public assistance, use public goods, and are causing many problems in our urban centers through gang violence. They are freeloaders and invaders.

When my anscestors came "illegaly" into America, they conquered it and made it their own. The immigrants can try and do this, conquering the land through settlement. However, certain people will stand against the violation of our borders and their national sovereignty.

[Az]

Remittances aren't bull. They make up several times the money that international aid does.

That doesn't speak much of international aid.

They provide very important capital for the third world. And yes, a lot of people return back to their countries of origins. I don't have any numbers on me and don't want to pull any out of my ass, but a suprisingly large amount does.

I don't have any number either. What I do have is the stories of the people I know, and stories from the community, generally.

I will not discuss the immigration from the former SU to Israel, it's a separate, and quite a special issue. I will discuss the russian immigrants to the US. I have yet to see anyone to return from the US to the boundaries of the former SU. and frankly, why should they?

Of course, the former SU has it ok with educational facilities, and such, so it can "re-fill" its' ranks to some extent, but in "real" 3rd world countries, if the skilled people will have the opportunity to freely immigrate to the western world with their entire families, why shouldn't they? This of course will lead to rock-bottom countries having no skilled labor, no matter what amount do they invest in education, and constant poverty.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by obiwan18

Since 1970, the foreign-born population of the United States has increased rapidly due to large-scale immigration, primarily from Latin America and Asia. The foreign-born population rose from 9.6 million in 1970 to 14.1 million in 1980 and to 19.8 million in 1990. The estimated foreign-born population in 1997 was 25.8 million. As a percentage of the total population, the foreign-born population increased from 4.7 percent in 1970 to 6.2 percent in 1980, to 7.9 percent in 1990, and to an estimated 9.7 percent in 1997.2"

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0029/twps0029.html

This is from before the 2000 census.I'm going to look and see what I can find for more up to date info. I still wonder if this counts illegal immigration though.

[nationalist]

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?ds_name=D&geo_id=D&qr_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_QTP14&_lang=en

This is a table from the 2000 census, showing an 11% foreign born population. This figure does not count illegal immigrants, because they didn't participate in the census. 16 million out of the 31.7 million foreign born are from Latin America, without counting the illegals.