American problems and solutions

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Asher

I know they have advantages, but I'm referring to your ideologies -- do you think that should be the case?

Not really This isn't a case of Americans should make it simply because they buy it, that's only part of it. A big part has to do with having a country with the ability to produce its own essential goods, and an even bigger part of it has to do with offering unskilled people an oppurtunity to have employment in a labor job to provide things like health care and a living wage to those who could otherwise not afford it. Poverty is probably the biggest cause of crime in the U.S., and by ensuring that is an abundance of union jobs is a good way of ensuring that the poorer people have a way out without resorting to more forceful reallocation of wealth/ I think that the end goal should be a public education system that gives unskilled people a chance to learn real skills, but even in that case I still think that we should make at least some (25-33%) Steel and textiles at home.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Frogger
If they're white and speak english you send them to Canada. If they're white and they don't you send them to Europe. If they're not white you send 'em to Mexico and let them sort 'em out...

First, I'd ask them where they were from. Then I'd check with that country to the extent possible. If that fails, I'd use linguistic experts to determine their country of origin by their speech. If that fails, then I'd just make a guess. Hey, they were here illegally. I guess that would be their punishment.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Frogger
Like any good American knows what French sounds like.



Knowing should be reason enough to deport you...

Oh ye great Canadian, pardon our pitiful ignorance.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrFun
Oh ye great Canadian, pardon our pitiful ignorance.

The irony, of course, is people from Quebec don't know what real French is either.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Asher

I certainly don't think we should export jobs to countries where the government forces people to work. I think they should go to countries where people work there if they want to...

What country do people work just because they want to? (Scandanavia aside ) The thing is that business go to the places where their profits would be maximized. Nothing wrong with that, thats the point of business. I'd simply raise tariffs so high in certain areas that the business would make more profit making them here instead of their.

[KrazyHorse]

What makes you think the supposed country of origin will take them back without proof they came from there?

"Linguistic experts" wouldn't cut it.

You wouldn't have a problem with the developed countries (since they generally have good records and could determine this), but the rest are a bigger problem as far as illegals are concerned anyway, and a lot don't want the population that they already have.

You can't send 'em back without proof where they come from, because nobody will take them...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher

The irony, of course, is people from Quebec don't know what real French is either.

We know...we just don't like it.

[David Floyd]

As promised, here we go...

I don't believe in free trade with under developed nations, because I think that the situation exploits both the American and the foreign workers. Under developed countries have lax environmental and labor laws, which our businessmen exploit.

So this makes it OK to restrict the freedom of Americans? Further, this presupposes that labor laws are moral, and by and large, I don't agree with that supposition.

Meanwhile, the social structure of America is decaying because the majority of people who would have been industrial workers 40 years ago are forced to work in minimum-wage, no insurance jobs. This lack of adequate employment breeds a hoplessness, while our MTV culture screams that we need to buy the latest designer label.

So your point is that stupid people are easily swayed by TV? I'll agree with that - but that's natural selection. In other words, too bad.

Nike makes $150 off of a $3 dollar shoe, and its young urban market sells drugs to afford those shoes.

I see no problem with either. Nike knows that it can maximize profits by charging $150, and young people are providing a good to people in a non-coercive manner in order to pay for these goods. What's the problem here?

Do this through tariffs. Put in price ceilings o avoid price-gouging; put in wage ceilings to ensure that companies can still make profits.

Or we can go ahead and keep everything free and non-coercive. This way, individuals can agree to whatever contracts and social sanctions that they think are right.

I propose neutrality as the official American foreign position. We spend billions each year trying to police the world, money that could be given back to the taxpayers or used to create a better education system. Our thanks: a world that hates us. Now we are becoming embroiled in wars that have little point and don't benefit Americans. We may be taking out a threat and doing the world a favor, but Europeans don't seem to think so. I think that we should step back and let them take care of the world for a while. If anyone actually tries to invade our country (which will never happen) then we should use whatever force is necessary to repel them. Other than that, U.S. troops should only be stationed in U.S. territory.

I fully agree with this, but I'll go further - the US military should be about 1% its current size, and funded to the same proportion of its current budget.

I think that the answer to terrorism is to take back control of our borders.

Terrorism is really caused by our aggressive and offensive foreign policy, which you've already said we should end. Therefore, terrorism will not be nearly that big of a problem - and I remind you, terrorism is not that big of a problem in the US to begin with, 9/11 notwithstanding.

Internally, we need to step up CIA investigation of suspected terrorist groupd, be they Muslims, Freemen Militia, KKK, etc.

I really hope you mean the FBI. I'm gonna go ahead and work on that assumption. I have no problem investigating terror groups, but I would not call your average militiaman or KKK member a terrorist, and I certainly would NOT call all Muslims terrorists.

All American citizens should be issued ID cards with their social security cards.

Why? In fact, why should we even have Social Security cards? That presupposes that Social Security is moral, which it certainly is not. Further, ID cards are a massive invasion of privacy - they also involve a database with every single American and their location in it, to say nothing of the inherent coerciveness of national ID cards.

Free exchange of ideas should be allowed and encouraged, and there should be no censorship of the press.

Agreed.

We should drill into whatever oil reserves that we have, as well as try to create alternative forms of energy to
break away from our dependence on Mid-East oil.

Agreed.

I suggest that this industrial isolation continue until we have created an effective system of education that includes free vocational school to train students in usefull trades, such as plumbing or construction. Only after we have created an effective education system would I relax my autarkic system, but I would still require that the U.S. produce at least 1/3 of its basic goods (steel, textiles, etc.) on its own.

First of all, I strongly oppose public education. It is coercive, and having the government educate children is dangerous from a propaganda standpoint. Further, it is arbitrary and economically unrealistic to say that the US should produce 1/3 - or any other number - of its own goods. The world is too interdependent right now, and this is a good thing.

I place the blame on there not being a way out for many people who are not wealthy or scholarly enough to get a university education.

Wait a second. All goods and services cost money. Therefore, only those with money - or some form of payment - deserve to receive goods and services. We can't ask the providers of goods and services to screw themselves in favor of a poor person. Nor should we force wealthy people to shell out their hard earned money to pay for poor people. This simply breeds laziness. Which brings me to my point - government handouts, or, rather, government generosity with other people's money, are the real problem. The welfare system encourages people to stay unemployed, and sit on their ass. Social Security doesn't encourage young people to save. Universal health care initiatives also encourage irresponsibility.

Unionized industiral jobs could solve this problem, providing otherwise hopless people with insurance and vacation time.

Unions are by nature coercive. I see no reason to provide legal protection to unions, nor do I see any reason to legally prohibit unions. Like anything else, membership/dues should be completely voluntary, and it should be completely voluntary for a corporation to listen to unions. Companies should be able to hire and fire at will, for any reason.

[Asher]

Originally posted by nationalist
What country do people work just because they want to? (Scandanavia aside )

Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear. I'm talking about being able to choose where they work. In most countries, people need to work to survive...

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Frogger

You can't send 'em back without proof where they come from, because nobody will take them...

But then why should I keep them? They don't belong here either. They're breaking the laws. What reason would I have not to put them back on their raft?

[KrazyHorse]

And of course the immigrants would never lie...

(Heavy Guatemalan accent):

Germany. Yes, I come from Germany...

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Asher

Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear. I'm talking about being able to choose where they work. In most countries, people need to work to survive...

I know that. It was a joke

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Frogger
And of course the immigrants would never lie...

(Heavy Guatemalan accent):

Germany. Yes, I come from Germany...

I don't think that you would need a linguistics expert to figure that one out.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by nationalist


But then why should I keep them? They don't belong here either. They're breaking the laws. What reason would I have not to put them back on their raft?

Back on their raft?

I thought you caught them because they didn't have an ID card.

Or are you suggesting you provide each of them with a raft?

The libertarians will never stand for such extravagance! Just dump them in the Atlantic and be done with it...

[Asher]

Originally posted by nationalist
I know that. It was a joke

Sorry, the exact same thing happened yesterday in another thread and a couple people threw a hissy fit because I didn't spell out exactly what I mean and relied on the context of the post. Why they can't read context, I have no idea -- but now I'm more careful and need to clarify it.