Klein warns Ottawa of separation threat

[Ben Kenobi]

I think Asher's referring to interest rates.

Sure the total value of the debt may decrease, but if the interest rates on the debt increase, presto, no more surplus.

[Flubber]

The obvious bottom line is that two provinces dominate the Canadian political scene due to their large size and domination of the House of Commons. Many countries, including the US, try to somehow balance the domination of population with some concept of protection or representation of regional interests for the simple fact that there are interests that are regional only in nature. People in Ontario (outside Hudson's Bay area )and all but a fraction of the people in Quebec would have much less concerns about matters related to oceans, fisheries, seaports etc than the people in NF, NB, NS, PEI and BC. People in the far north have very specific issues that differ from the bulk of the population as well.

These are areas of federal jurisdiction and power but not areas of federal government priority or concern because they do not concern the majority of the population. Thats the reason why many countries see fit to find a way to provide regional voices in a federal system. IT is not about trying to take anything AWAY from the voters in that majority. What it is about is trying to give voters , whose issues can never be a priority for the majority , some voice outside the scant number their population would warrant.

I don't expect that the central voters would ever allow a triple E senate on any model of provincial equality. Given that reality I would simply abolish the Senate. Either it serves a useful and slightly different function that the house or get rid of it. Proportional represenation in the senate rather than first past the post is an idea but one that does NOTHING to address regional interests.

If you feel that the underrepresentation of the smaller parties is an issue in the Commons this could be an interesting way to address it. It might actually leads to less tyrannical government if a government was in the minority in the upper chamber ( as would be the case in most recent elections). It would have to be a carefully crafted model between the two chambers to allow government not to become hopelessly stalemated if the opposition in the House held the majority ( between them) in the Senate as we don't have US history of shifting alliances among and between the parties.

Frogger --- On the equality of voters issue
Ridings rarely have the same number of people in them, even within provinces. I think every province has more people in smaller urban ridings and less in larger rural ones. Does this mean that rural voters have more rights than urban ones?? Of course not !! All it means is that providing effective representation gets more difficult BOTH as you represent more people AND as you represent a larger area. Equalizing all the ridings in say Ontario would be "fairer" in your view ( making the votes worth the same would be the same issue within provinces as across them would it not??) but I think it would lead to less representative and effective government when the rural MP gets 40 new towns spread over 1000 miles added to his riding. But Torontoo and area would get the 5 new MPs or so they so badly need since Toronto is just oh so ignored . . .

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Voicing opinions is kind of worthless when you're either ignored (see federal government) or called whiners (see Apolyton) for it, don't you think?

Why should I do anything for my country? I prefer the one with a hick in a cowboy hat a president, how sad is that?

This is exactly the type of spoiled brat atttitude that pisses me off.

You want us to listen to you, (and I'm talking about you Asher), but you don't want to lift a finger to change anything. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter.

If you don't like the system, then try to change it. Join the CA, the PC, the NDP. Hell, join the friggen Liberals and try to change them from within.

Just do something or shut the **** up.

Originally posted by Asher
The current country as it stands has done nothing but aggravate me.

What a ****ing ungrateful little brat. You're getting a great education. You have access to excellent medical care. You have freedom of speech. You have the freedom of movement. There is so much you have that others would die for, and you act like a spoiled child and say Canada has done nothing but aggravate you.

Grow up.

Originally posted by Asher
Did it ever occur to you the reason I'm planning to leave is the lack of changes?

Do you think it is going to change by magic. Real change takes work, something you're not willing to do.

I'll give the PQ bastards credit for putting actions behind their whining. They didn't sit in their basement whining about how everyone is unfair to them.

[Wezil]

Obiwan - Palatable? Good question. If I knew the answer I wouldn't be posting it here.

Asher - Huge increases, but as Frogger noted - no deficit. The debt will decrease as a % of GDP with time, but I agree with you it is a poor repayment plan. Brings to mind Martin's shell game deficit cutting, which leads to...

Frogger - Yes, the budget is still in the black thanks to the consistent application of overtaxation (take the deficit fighting fuel tax for example), and the continued theft of EI premiums from workers and employers in this country. Since when did they change the legislation to allow EI funds to support say...daycare? Theft.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
This is exactly the type of spoiled brat atttitude that pisses me off.

You want us to listen to you, (and I'm talking about you Asher), but you don't want to lift a finger to change anything. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter.

All the finger lifting in the world isn't going to change how Canada runs its government, especially considering I'm a 19 year old computer science student.

You know that as well as I do, so feel free to knock off that argument...

If you don't like the system, then try to change it. Join the CA, the PC, the NDP. Hell, join the friggen Liberals and try to change them from within.

What a ****ing ungrateful little brat. You're getting a great education.

Yeah, what wonderful education. My university is implementing differential tuition, as a computer science student my tuition will f*cking double in 2 years. Wonderful. Most State universities will be cheaper for me in 2 years...

You have access to excellent medical care.

I had to wait a year with a cyst on my left wrist (I'm left handed) which started pinching nerves and became quite painful. When I lived in California, my father had the same operation done the DAY he went into see the doctor about it.

"Excellent" medical care is relative to what you're used to, for my standards it's nothing short of pathetic.

Did I mention my grandmother in Ontario died from breast cancer waiting in line for chemo?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

All the finger lifting in the world isn't going to change how Canada runs its government, especially considering I'm a 19 year old computer science student.

If you believe that then shut your f-cking whining.

The fact of the matter is that you can change the system regardless of your age. Even computer science students can achieve change. People do it all the time, but it requires work, something that you're not willing to do because you're a spoiled brat.

You've got no courage of conviction. You're not willing to fight the good fight. You give up without even trying. You just whine on and on about "Oh, I hate this, I hate that. But I'm not going to do anything (except whine and whine) because there's no point, nothing will ever change because everyone else sucks."

People like you are just pathetic.

Originally posted by Asher
Yeah, what wonderful education. My university is implementing differential tuition, as a computer science student my tuition will f*cking double in 2 years. Wonderful. Most State universities will be cheaper for me in 2 years...

Here we go again. Asher is whining on again about how everyone and everything is screwing him around.

If you don't like the tuition increase then fight it.

If you're not willing to fight it, then shut up or go to the States. The sooner you leave Canada the better,

Just do something other than whining like a brat.

Originally posted by Asher
I had to wait a year with a cyst on my left wrist (I'm left handed) which started pinching nerves and became quite painful.

Oh the injustice of it all. Poor little Asher had to wait a year to get an operation.

And what did you do about this injustice. Nothing, right. Sorry, you complained and then did nothing else.

Originally posted by Asher
Did I mention my grandmother in Ontario died from breast cancer waiting in line for chemo?

My mother, who lives in Toronto, is receiving excellent chemo care for her breast cancer (I can only hope that it works). I am extremely grateful that Canada has created a great medical care system (one that needs more funding, but it is still great).

Too bad about your grandmother. Cancer is a terrible thing.

But that's all the sympathy you deserve because once again you're just whining on and on, but not doing anything to fix the problem. Have you done anything to help other people fight cancer? Have you done anything to ensure that what happened to your grandmother won't happen to someone else? We know the answer.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
If you believe that then shut your f-cking whining.

The fact of the matter is that you can change the system regardless of your age. Even computer science students can achieve change. People do it all the time, but it requires work, something that you're not willing to do because you're a spoiled brat.

You've got no courage of conviction. You're not willing to fight the good fight. You give up without even trying. You just whine on and on about "Oh, I hate this, I hate that. But I'm not going to do anything (except whine and whine) because there's no point, nothing will ever change because everyone else sucks."

People like you are just pathetic.

You've got to be kidding me? Seriously...

I'm not a politician. I don't want to be a politician. That doesn't mean I don't ever debate about politics, and I think it's absurd for you to talk about people who debate about politics but don't become politicians are spoiled brats.

In order to change a party, you need to be a senior member. In order to be a senior member, you gotta be in the party a LONG time and be good at what you do. Then there's the problem of indifference among Canadians as a whole -- most Canadians don't want reform. Most Canadians live in the region of the country that rather likes how the current system works, since it favours them.

All of the effort on my behalf, as a 19-year old computer science student, won't change that. I'm sorry if I'm being realistic here, but that's how I like to be.

Here we go again. Asher is whining on again about how everyone and everything is screwing him around.

If you don't like the tuition increase then fight it.

If you're not willing to fight it, then shut up or go to the States. The sooner you leave Canada the better,

Just do something other than whining like a brat.

I've fought it as best I could -- I voted against it (as did 90% of the students). The fact is the university has a funding shortfall, and they need more money. Fighting it isn't changing that.

I'm also in a real faculty, you know. I've got work, assignments, things to do. I didn't join some Journalism faculty like you where I had buckets of free time to kill parading nude down the streets shouting "Down with tuition hikes!". I've got things to do. Sorry, that's how it is.

Oh the injustice of it all. Poor little Asher had to wait a year to get an operation.

And what did you do about this injustice. Nothing, right. Sorry, you complained and then did nothing else.

What do you *WANT* me to do????

Tingkai, you're simply unbelievable. Not everybody has the time or energy or abilities to change the world. The simple fact is there's nothing I can do as a 19 year old college student.

Wake up to the fact, snap back to reality...

Have you done anything to ensure that what happened to your grandmother won't happen to someone else? We know the answer.

Yes, you do -- I've made plans to move me (and my future family) to a country with an adequate healthcare system.

That's all I can do, and that's all I will do. If Canadians as a whole are content with a shoddy healthcare system, hey -- it's their health. I'm not going to stand in their way.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I've fought it as best I could -- I voted against it (as did 90% of the students). The fact is the university has a funding shortfall, and they need more money. Fighting it isn't changing that.

Typical f-cking whiner. You give up before you even try.

Did you call your MLA and complain? Did you write a letter to the Minister of Education? Did you ask your family and friends to complain to their MLAs? Did you write a letter to your local newspaper?

All of these things can be done in a small amount of time and all of them can help influence your government.

And at least you would tried which is a hell of a lot better than just sitting there and whining.

You should be demanding to know why the rich Alberta government doesn't provide more funding to universities.

And if you object to the government spending more money on education then you shouldn't be whining about higher tuition fees.

Originally posted by Asher
I've got work, assignments, things to do.

Yeah, you're so busy doing important stuff like whining on Apolyton.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Typical f-cking whiner. You give up before you even try.

Did you call your MLA and complain? Did you write a letter to the Minister of Education? Did you ask your family and friends to complain to their MLAs? Did you write a letter to your local newspaper?

The MLA is totally aware of it, so is the minister of education, and the newspaper has written several frontpage stories on it as well so I'd assume they're quite aware of it.

The fact is, all the whining and protesting in the world ain't gonna do a damn thing. Funds are short.

You should be demanding to know why the rich Alberta government doesn't provide more funding to universities.

They claim there's more funding coming in the next budget (April), that's their line.

And if you object to the government spending more money on education then you shouldn't be whining about higher tuition fees.

When did I ever object to education spending, genius?

Yeah, you're so busy doing important stuff like whining on Apolyton.

It's reading week, darling, and I'll have you know I've spent all f*cking day working on a program that wasn't working right, and it's just now working properly.

It's a bad habit I have to surf Apolyton while I'm stuck on a program.

You're really something though, Tingkai -- an unreasonable prude, really.

I'm starting to really wonder if you believe these things, or you say them just because you know they make for great troll material. Because anyone reading them is probably laughing as hard as I am.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
The MLA is totally aware of it, so is the minister of education, and the newspaper has written several frontpage stories on it as well so I'd assume they're quite aware of it.

Asher, you really are stupid. You don't right to your MLA to make them "aware" of the issue. You write to complain.

Originally posted by Asher
The fact is, all the whining and protesting in the world ain't gonna do a damn thing.

If you believe this then shut up. No one wants to hear your latest whine. No one gives a sh!t.

It's apathetic people like you who are to blame for half the country's problems. You sit around whining and moaning, but you never do anything. You let the politicians get away with crap.

But, you'll deny this of course because you have no concept of taking responsibility for your actions. You're just the poor little abused victim who is getting a great education, who got a subsidised medical operation, whose daddy is rich. Yup, your life is terrible.

Do us a favour and move to the US now. Spare us your separatist whine and moans. Everyone already knows you hate Canada.

Everyone knows that you think the system sucks because it doesn't do exactly what you want it to do.

Everyone knows that you're just a selfish little brat who wants every thing handed to you on a silver platter. You want big daddy in Ottawa to pay attention, but you're not willing to do anything constructive in return.

Here's a news flash. No one owes you anything.

[Ben Kenobi]

Chill pills Tingkai..



No need for this here.

You're lucky Asher has a thick skin.

Everyone knows that you're just a selfish little brat who wants every thing handed to you on a silver platter.

No one cares for your rants.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Asher
Or hey, maybe we could do the senate by contribution to the budget, and give it absolute control over the budget.

That would still be unequivocably controlled by Ontario (namely metro Toronto). Granted, Alberta would have a little more say....

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher, you really are stupid. You don't right to your MLA to make them "aware" of the issue. You write to complain.

What, you mean whine? But whining is bad!

The MLAs all f*cking know the students are pissed off about it, Tingkai. There are demonstrations and news stories about it, writing to the MLA to complain will just result in a letter back from her secretary explaining how she sympathizes with the students and will do everything in her power to help us.

It's politics, why do you think they'll do anything?

You've got balls for calling me stupid, while at the same time suggesting writing a letter to my MLA is going to somehow alter University policy (which is actually not under direct control of the provincial government).

If you believe this then shut up. No one wants to hear your latest whine. No one gives a sh!t.

If you'll remember, you're the one that was gloating about the excellent education. I merely informed you that it's not as excellent as you'd like to think, and now you're getting on my case for bringing it to your attention.

What do you want, Tingkai, people to only tell you positive things about your country? No wonder you get so pissed off when people point out the bad.

It's apathetic people like you who are to blame for half the country's problems. You sit around whining and moaning, but you never do anything. You let the politicians get away with crap.

If I was apathetic, why would I be complaining? Jeez Tingkai, for a journalism major you're pretty poor with wordchoice...

I'm not apathetic, I'm realistic. I've given up on this country because I realize there's nothing I can do to change central Canada's ideas on what Canada should be.

Flame me all you want -- I've got a choice where I can live. I've got two countries, one with a better healthcare system and a federal government that is more agreeable to my political tastes, and one headed up by a slightly-retarded, senile frenchman who throws money out the window for fun. Tough call, but the fact is I'm selfish, and I'm better off in the US.

Maybe if Canada as a whole would realize the current system is unfair, that the current health system sucks, that education is going down the drain -- maybe then I'd stay and care. People in Canada just don't care.

I care. I just aren't in a position to do anything about it.

And you're so painfully naive if you think a letter to an MLA is going to change any of that.

[quote]But, you'll deny this of course because you have no concept of taking responsibility for your actions.

You're just the poor little abused victim who is getting a great education

We all know this is only possible in Canada, right?

who got a subsidised medical operation

It was free in the US, only instead of waiting 1 year my dad waited 1 hour. Glorious subsidized sub-standard healthcare indeed.

Yup, your life is terrible.

No one said it was terrible. It's just that there's better places for me to live it, as you've so keenly pointed out by your attitude in this thread.

Do us a favour and move to the US now. Spare us your separatist whine and moans. Everyone already knows you hate Canada.

I love Canada, I hate Chretien, I hate the people who think the current system is fair, and I love you for whining so very much about how you hate my whining.

Everyone knows that you think the system sucks because it doesn't do exactly what you want it to do.

Provide a government that serves the people, rather than just the people in Ontario and Quebec? You're damn right that's why I think the system sucks.

Everyone knows that you're just a selfish little brat who wants every thing handed to you on a silver platter.

Now this doesn't even make sense. If I wanted everything handed to me on a silver platter, wouldn't I be socialist?

I also fail to see the correlation between wanting government reform and being a spoiled brat. Perhaps that's because, well, there is none. The thing is, you don't have an argument. So you've resorted to pathetic ad hominems because I've upset you by pointing out Canada has lots of problems, despite your attempts to say otherwise.

Here's a news flash. No one owes you anything.

Do you realize how silly you're being? Really?

You go off on these righteous little tirades whining about my whining. The difference, of course, is I'm expressing my discontent with the Canadian government system and you're expressing your discontent with me expressing my discontent.

I wonder if anyone else sees the humour in this...

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by obiwan18
No need for this here.

There is a need. For as long as I've been here, Asher routinely starts threads to insult Canada and to promote separatism and the destruction of Canada. All he ever does is whine and whine about how his viewpoint is being ignored.

Enough is enough.

I don't mind people who hate the system and try to change it. But Asher isn't willing to do anything.

I'm fed up with this brat.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I'm realistic.

You're not realistic.

You're a lazy spoiled whiny little brat.

You're a complete waste of space and a waste of my time.

I'm out of here. You can go back to your regular moaning.