Klein warns Ottawa of separation threat

[Ben Kenobi]

Ok. That was a poor way to put the thought.

Once BC joins the US- the Canadians mills contribute to the US economy rather than the Canadian. If inefficient mills in Georgia go out of business, the American economy improves simply because they now profit from BC mills directly.

If BC is not a part of the US and the inefficient US mills in Georgia go out of business the US economy hurts because of the jobs lost. This is why they want the tariffs up so they can modernise the US mills to compete with the Canadians on their own turf.

[Asher]

I don't think the issue was ever the efficiency of US mills in Georgia.

Is that what they tell you in BC?

[Ben Kenobi]

Other reasons for sure.

We're very suspicious about market-based pricing, and the US buying all the mills here in BC.

Why make this a condition to lower the tariffs? Right now, we've just told them off, and are trying to make money with an anchor dropped.

What do they tell you in Alberta?

[RedFred]

Alberta should stay in Confederation. It offers a great buffer to the wingnuts even further east.

There was a time that there was a whole lot of nothing in between British Colombia and the Red River Valley area that eventually became Manitoba. Alberta is very much an artificial construct just like Saskatchewan.

So Alberta 'nationalism' does strike my funnybone. Besides, in the unlikely event that Alberta both separated and was welcomed with open arms by the Americans, they would soon find that as a province they would have had a whole lot more power and influence than they would have as a very minor state.

[Lancer]

Any part of Canada which manages to seperate could join the US, of this I have no doubt. The politics and business could take a hike, the people would want it. However the US wouldn't involve itself in any Canadian civil war imo, even if it meant we could fight French.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
There aren't separation numbers, but alienation:
quote:
According to a January, 2001, poll, Alberta has surpassed Quebec as the hotbed ofalienation -- 47% to 30%

quote:
Albertans already contribute more than any other Canadians to the cost of
maintaining a unified nation -- $2,600 per capita annually for transfers and
equalization versus $1,800 per second-place Ontarian -- but receive
measurably less influence over federal policy. Indeed, federal policies on
not only the environment, but also on social programs, language,
immigration, criminal justice, firearms and a host of other issues, are not
just opposed by most Albertans, but are offensive to them.

Where is this from What's the source?

[Asher]

they would soon find that as a province they would have had a whole lot more power and influence than they would have as a very minor state.

This isn't necessarily true.
We can elect 2 senators in the US. We can elect 0 in Canada.

The entire power structure of the Canadian government (100% of it) comes from whichever party forms the majority in the house.

So I guess what I'm saying is, we'd sadly get more power with 2 senators and a couple of congressman in the US than we'd ever get in Canada. Pathetic, no?

Edit: Not to mention, we wouldn't necessarily need more influence since the US is politically much more similar than the rest of Canada. Kyoto, for instance, would be a non-issue...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Where is this from What's the source?

January 29, 2001 article in the National Post called "Alienation's New Hotbed"

I can't find a specific copy of it online, so if you're really interested go to a library and find it, but it's referenced in several places, including: http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/apr01/gunter.pdf

[St Leo]

But there isn't much separist sentiment here in Ontario.

There is in Toronto. Ontario's Conservatives are screwing it over.

It's too bad we couldn't convince more of those Ontarians to vote Alliance, because this would actually implement some of the reforms necessary to keep BC and Alberta in confederation.

LOL. If the Alliance is elected, there won't be a Confederation anymore. They already think that "Her Majesty" in "Her Majesty's Royal Opposition" is King George.

Trees are a pretty worthless resource, and the US isn't very fond of you guys for your lumber industry as it stands.

Excuse me. You aren't fond of us? We are not the ones who are violating NAFTA by installing protectionist measures.

However the US wouldn't involve itself in any Canadian civil war imo, even if it meant we could fight French.

Civil Wars are barbaric. In Canada, the separatists only need to win in a referendum to have their way.

January 29, 2001 article in the National Post called "Alienation's New Hotbed"

The National Post *gurgle* *wurgle* eat *burgle* *furgle* crap *surgle* *gurgle* *murgle* up *burgle* *hurgle* disgusting. Is there an article about this in a real newspaper?

[Asher]

Originally posted by St Leo
Excuse me. You aren't fond of us? We are not the ones who are violating NAFTA by installing protectionist measures.

What's with the you/us attitude?
Does the flag confuse you next to my name?

The National Post *gurgle* *wurgle* eat *burgle* *furgle* crap *surgle* *gurgle* *murgle* up *burgle* *hurgle* disgusting. Is there an article about this in a real newspaper?

Give me a break...are you really going to pull that crap? You know the "plug my ears and pretend it's not happening until my Liberal newspapers wake up to the fact that not everybody likes them"? It's trite, old, and stupid.

If you wanna find more, you can look it up yourself.

I do wonder why you find it so hard to believe 47% of Albertans feel alienated? And this is pre-Kyoto too.

[Urban Ranger]

Snooze, the usual silly political game. Alberta doesn't get any say because it has no people. End of story.

[St Leo]

What's with the you/us attitude?
Does the flag confuse you next to my name?

I was using "you" in plural as a way to refer to the Americans. You, Asher, are one of "us".

I do wonder why you find it so hard to believe 47% of Albertans feel alienated?

I don't find it hard to believe. After all, I am basing my new-found stereotypical views of Albertans on you, Asher. I'm just saying that the National Post is not a reputable newspaper. If you want to quote a conservative newspaper, could you use Globe & Mail instead?

[Asher]

I don't find it hard to believe. After all, I am basing my new-found stereotypical views of Albertans on you, Asher. I'm just saying that the National Post is not a reputable newspaper. If you want to quote a conservative newspaper, could you use Globe & Mail instead?

I didn't quote it because it's conservative, I quoted it because it was cited as a source for something relevant.

I'm slightly annoyed that you're being the very typical Liberal for bashing a source rather than the information it contains, though.

And to play your games, if you want to refute it, could you please cite ANY source? It's incredibly annoying for you to refute it/question it and offer NOTHING in return.

UR:

Snooze, the usual silly political game. Alberta doesn't get any say because it has no people. End of story.

10% of the population doesn't mean we get 0 say. Especially considering all of the money this province brings in.

It shouldn't be an all-or-nothing thing.

[Asher]

Out of curiousity, why isn't the National Post a "reputable newspaper"?

Is it because it started its life off as the "Financial Post" and businesses are evil?

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Asher

This isn't necessarily true.
We can elect 2 senators in the US. We can elect 0 in Canada.

How many does Puerto Rico elect?