Chechnya - do they deserve independence?

[Urban Ranger]

Not just the reservations David, the whole continent. What if they want the whole continent back?

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Sava
I'd vote yes only if the Mexicans in Southern California get their own country too. How about the Cubans in Miami, let's give them their own country, too. It's the same bull sh!t story with the Albanians in Kosovo. If you don't like the way the country is run, if you don't want to have your children taught in the schools, if you don't want to be part of the society, than get the **** out of the country.

You know you are the second person to bring up that comparsion. Let them have a vote if you think it would do any good. We can have a vote in Chechnya and the Southwest and see what the people want. If you really want to look smart, compare the situation with Hawaii. (edit: or even Puerto Rico) But your southwest comparsion is kind of weak.

BTW. The Native Americans are independent nations with treaties with the US. They may not be exactly what you want but your theory is defeated by that small detail.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Not just the reservations David, the whole continent. What if they want the whole continent back?

Are the Chechens asking for all of Russia? If not, why the native american comparison

[Urban Ranger]

Why? Because both are countries.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Why? Because both are countries.

So the situations are the same. So if the Chechens are allowed to get independence, then it only makes sense that Native Americans and Hispanics get independence as well? Tell me Urban. Should the Hispanics get the Southwest or should the Native Americans?


The US and Malta are both countries. Does that mean they are exactly the same?

[Ramo]

The Chechens don't want to rule the entire Russian Federation; they just want to be able to govern themselves without taking orders from Moscow. The issue is autonomy, not land redistribution.

[Mr. President]

If one separatist movement is legitimate, then all separatist movements are legitimate. Or at least they can make themselves legitimate.

[spartak]

Originally posted by Ramo
The Chechens don't want to rule the entire Russian Federation; they just want to be able to govern themselves without taking orders from Moscow. The issue is autonomy, not land redistribution.

They had autonomy under the lebed deal. Guess that didn't work out eh?

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Not only don't they deserve any independence, but their criminal mafia culture should be thoroughly eradicated.

This same could be said about Russia

[Heresson]

Re: Chechnya - do they deserve independence?

It seems that to my mind that they weren't content to stay within their borders - Both times the Russians invaded was because of border incidents and actions to the detriment of Russian security.

The second time around was far worse as after the Chechen govt slipped into anarchy, bombs were set off in Moscow and serious attempts were made to destabilise neighbouring Dagestan!

Ekhem - The attack on Dagestan was a bandit action that had nothing to do with Tchechenian gouverment, and was condemned by it.

The case of bombs in Moscow isn't yet solved - there are no proofs it was a Tchechenian fault.

Anyway know what Russians are doing in Tchechenia.
Mass rapes, mass murders, misterious "disappearings"
of Tchechenians, crippling them with especiall emphasis in crippling their genitals so that they couldn't reproduce... It's all Russia.

[The Pioneer]

Of course they deserve their freedom but if Russians will pull out will they become another Afghanistan?! Or will the right s of all people be secured?!

The UN has a great mission here and a very difficult one. Although, I do not see them doing anything about it.


So long...

[Ned]

Re: Re: Chechnya - do they deserve independence?

Originally posted by Heresson


Ekhem - The attack on Dagestan was a bandit action that had nothing to do with Tchechenian gouverment, and was condemned by it.

The case of bombs in Moscow isn't yet solved - there are no proofs it was a Tchechenian fault.

Anyway know what Russians are doing in Tchechenia.
Mass rapes, mass murders, misterious "disappearings"
of Tchechenians, crippling them with especiall emphasis in crippling their genitals so that they couldn't reproduce... It's all Russia.

This sounds to me much like Arafat condemning both condemning terrorism and financing it.

I the government of Chechnya really were against the so-called bandits, they would have welcomed Russian troops to suppress the bandits - or formed an alliance.

Instead, they fought side by side with the so-called bandits.

[Heresson]

Re: Re: Re: Chechnya - do they deserve independence?

Originally posted by Ned


This sounds to me much like Arafat condemning both condemning terrorism and financing it.

I the government of Chechnya really were against the so-called bandits, they would have welcomed Russian troops to suppress the bandits - or formed an alliance.

Instead, they fought side by side with the so-called bandits.

Russians didn't want to cooperate with Tchechenian authorities, not the other way round. Tchechenian gouverment didn't involve in supporting the mentioned bandits, and it started fighting only when Russians entered Tchechenia.

[Harovan]

Sure do the Chechen people deserve their freedom and even more after all, what the Russians have done to them. I don't support acts of terror like in the Nord-Ost theater (should it's name not be Severo-Vostok, why a Russian theater has a German name?), but I support the fight of the Chechen people for their independence. Just like Yeltsin, I consider Putin to be a war criminal and mass murderer.

Just give them their freedom, and I don't mean some half-hearted autonomy. So it's an inhumane islamic regime they want? May be, but it's the way they want to live, nobody gives us the right to judge. So let them. Close the borders and don't let Chechens into Russia. And don't deliver them oil. But wait... wasn't plenty of oil in and around Chechnya? Maybe I understand now what all this is about...

[Sava]

Actually, I do have the right to judge an inhumane islamic regime... and the children of peoples like the Chechens, Albanians, Iraqis, Afghanis, etc; deserve basic human rights. The most important of which is freedom. Democracy is the only just form of government. Now, the type of Democracy they want is entirely up to them.