Pledge of Alligiance - Unconstitutional?

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Right.... so you will be sending your children to school, where, even if they don't say it, this "pledge" will be ringing around their ears and being recited by all their friends?

Probably not, but I still find nothing unconstitutional about it.

So you think that the line should stay?

[Lincoln]

Read the post above yours ranskaldan. I think that the whole country has gone to pot. Words or pledges with or without God are not going to solve our problems.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes it does. As the article mentions, Ike's own thoughts on the matter were that such a phrase would promote a certain brand of religion. That's why he added it.

That might be why he added it (his intent), but the phrasing doesn't promote jack (the effect). How does this take away your freedom to believe what you want? Even if a public authority says what they believe, you can disagree.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you think that the line should stay?

No, I don't. But I don't think the judiciary should change it. The legislature should.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Read the post above yours ranskaldan. I think that the whole country has gone to pot. Words or pledges with or without God are not going to solve our problems.

If I have to put up with it, fine. But I don't think that it's right, and while there's an opportunity to change it, it should be changed.

[Lincoln]

Anyway this has been a fast moving thread but now I have some important stuff to do like wash my socks.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I'm offended when somebody uses public resources to talk about God.

Same here... but I don't see it as unconstitutional. The President saying 'God Bless America' in a State of Union isn't forcing a religion.

The President is paid to have a certain point of view in governing the country. He can say "God Bless America" all he wants. He can also believe, and act and speak on the belief, that Israel is completely in the right in its current conflict. Having schoolteachers teach such a view is unacceptable because they aren't political animals.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The President is paid to have a certain point of view in governing the country. He can say "God Bless America" all he wants. He can also believe, and act and speak on the belief, that Israel is completely in the right in its current conflict. Having schoolteachers teach such a view is unacceptable because they aren't political animals.

School teachers are allowed to speak their beliefs in class as they are teaching and many of them do.

[KrazyHorse]

Really? My schoolteachers always tried to provide a balanced view of their subjects. If pressed they'd give an opinion, but only after telling everybody that it was just an opinion...

[Imran Siddiqui]

A lot try to do that. But I've had plenty of teachers that gave their views. Especially one history teacher that told us what he thought very often.

And of course, college professors can always state their opinions.

[Tuberski]

Funny thing. I grew up in Utah, the religious nuthouse of the world, And after I finished 8th grade, the pledge of allegiance just disappeared.

Probably because somebody whined about "having" to say "under God."

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
A lot try to do that. But I've had plenty of teachers that gave their views. Especially one history teacher that told us what he thought very often.

And of course, college professors can always state their opinions.

College profs are paid to have opinions, professionally. Plus there's lots of competing viewpoints, so no tyranny, and as college students are usually slightly more independent thinkers, it seems less like indoctrination...

[ranskaldan]

Everyone's agreeing with each other!
Mmm, this debate seems to be over.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, not quite, ranskaldan .

I don't like the phrasing, but I don't think it unconstitutional either.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Asher

Obviously never been to many public schools in a while, have you?

I usually didn't say it (the one or two times a year it was said)

so yes, in current public schools it is not a requirement (in fact is hardly ever (in my expereince) used)

Jon Miller