Official Star Wars Kicks Arse Thread

[Saint Marcus]

Remember, interstellar travelling in SW is much faster than in ST.

Not if you count Transwarp, which the Borg use

Borg vs Empire?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Just saw it and IT ROCKS

Empire Strikes Back: ****
A New Hope: ***1/2
Attack of the Clones: ***
Return of the Jedi: **1/2 (the 1/2 because of the end fight)
The Phantom Menace: **

(The third one I predict will be a ****)

Great story, and Hell, I didn't think the acting was THAT bad. From reading this thread I thought it would be utterly atrocious. It was ok acting, and great story telling.

I don't know what Tinkai is talking about: holes? It seems bloody obvious to me that Sideous (Sid-ees, as the Kaminoans called him), who of course is Palpatine, asked for this Clone Army to begin production when Darth Maul was killed. He took Dooku and made him into Darth Tyranus (So Yoda loses a Padawan to the Dark Side as Obi-Wan will).

The whole thing was staged. I don't recall at ALL Dooku looking surprised (I even looked for it). In fact, he seemed anything BUT suprised. Just part of the deal and he had to go and fulfill the plan.

One wonders why he'd tell Obi-Wan about the Republic being ruled by a Sith. Maybe it was so he could turn Kenobi into his apprentace and take over Sideous' role.

Great light saber duels, and yes the Jedi were about to be destroyed if the clones hadn't come in (that looked obvious too). And the Jedi knew about the clones because Yoda said he would go to Kamino and pick them up before he sent Windu to get Dooku/Tyranus.

Interesting/Fun parts:

When Palpatine/Sideous manipulated Jar-Jar into introducing the motion to give him Emergency Powers.

Obi Wan saying to Anakin - "Why do I get the feeling you are going to be the death of me". And who says the Jedi can't see into the future .

The Imperial March being played at the end when the clones are being loaded onto the ships to try to finish off the seperatists.

And of course, Yoda's lightsabering.

And ESB was the best because the bad guys won . The ending was one of the best I've seen to a movie... and no other SW movie has been able to touch it.

Saying that, I liked the AOTC ending. Leaving it open.. having Anakin (very nicely showing off being bratty and independent) marrying Padme, a violation of Jedi code... with his mechanic hand... beginning the process and morphing into Darth Vader.

[Lonestar]

Mark, Mark, Mark

Hopefully the following explains it for yay.

Figures you'd do wishful thinking that the Federation would win, their commies, you're a Eurocommie....

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


btw, how many ships does the empire have? pretty few compared to the number of ships the Federation has. In the battle to retake DS9 the Federation had some 500 ships. The Dominion 1000. And these are 90% starships, not pesky little fighters like in Star Wars.

By the Time of ROTJ, the Galactic Empire had constructed Imperial Star Destroyers.

Now, bear in mind, as the Lower Limit of the Galactic Empire is a million systems, not even that would be enough to keep a hold. Obviously, most of the fleet is going to be stationed in the Core Regions (Kuat, Coruscant, Corellia) than out in the boonies, where every damn movie in the original trilogy takes place. (cept for a brief visit to Alderaan).

In both TPM and AOTC, just from viewing the many thousands of ships leaving and entering Coruscant(in orbit) in the brief scenes that a orbital view is shown, there are more ship visiting the planet on a daily basis than the upperlimit of the Federation Starfleet.

Unlike the Star Trek Powers that Be(tm), Lucasfilm has strived to keep everything in continnuity and official.
Movies, and movie novelizations are "canon".
Books,"Tech Manuals", and Comic books are "Official" (Canon unless contradicted by movies)
Games are licensed, like the ST novels.

================


FTL speeds

The Empire laughs at your puny Warp Drive and "Transwarp", and "Quantum Tunneling".

Well, maybe not Transwarp. But both Quantum tunneling and warp.
----------------

The Borg

.....Are a bunch of pussies.


(1)Can they assimilate everything they come across? No. From www.stardestroyer.net :

First, the obvious question: is this really a myth? Or is it the reality of Star Trek? Well, it is pretty obviously a myth. The Borg were unable to assimilate Species 8472 life forms or bioships in "Scorpion". They were unable to assimilate Data when they captured him in STFC. The Hirogen border their territory and have resisted assimilation for thousands of years. The Dyson Sphere seen in "Relics" has undoubtedly been sitting around for millions of years, given the extent to which its star's aging process had progressed, yet it showed no signs of Borg encroachment. The Voth also border Borg territory, and appear to have no fear of Borg assimilation whatsoever. We have several concrete examples of their inability to assimilate biological life forms and/or technologies. Is any more evidence necessary? The Borg obviously cannot assimilate any and every life form or technology, and we have canon proof for this conclusion.
---------------

So, there's a good chance that the Borg may not even be able to assimilate the Empire, Stormtroopers not withstanding. Next up:

(2) The Borg can adapt and be impervious to anything.

This myth is clearly refuted by the canon films and episodes. In STFC, we see that although a Borg cube can become seemingly impervious to the weapons of a single Federation starship, it cannot withstand the massed attack of dozens of Federation starships. This demonstrates that Borg "adapted shield" lower limits are somewhere above the firepower of a GCS and below the massed firepower of a fleet containing dozens of Federation starships. We can also see Borg cubes being blasted into fragments by Species 8472 bio-ships and destroyed by simple planetary debris in "Scorpion". And of course, we all know that Borg drones are helpless against any sort of physical attack, whether it's the claws of Species 8472, the bullets of Picard's tommy-gun in STFC, a well-thrown elbow, or one of Worf's various artfully sculpted slicin' and dicin' toys.
-------

It's safe to say the Borg would be eaten for lunch by Imperial Warships.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
So, there's a good chance that the Borg may not even be able to assimilate the Empire, Stormtroopers not withstanding.

Where do you pull this assumption from? Stormtroopers are human and the Borg have demonstrated no inability to assimilate humanity into the Collective.

(2) The Borg can adapt and be impervious to anything.

The Empire has demonstrated no ability to vary the energy frequency of thier weapons and as such thier laser weaponry would become ineffective after the initial assault. From that point on it would likely be Wolf 359 redux.

[Boris Godunov]

All I have to say is that if the Galactic Empire can't beat a woefully underfunded, disorganized band of rebels within their own territority, then I don't think they'd be too successful against the Federation either. But that's over the length of a long war.

Numbers: Empire, easily. Their fleet is 25,000 ISDs minimum alone, not to mention the myriad of other capital ships. I think it would be safe to assume in any battle, the Empire would have sheer numerical superiority of ships.

Resources: Empire, again. The Empire has hundreds of thousands of worlds to provide raw materials. The Federation's resources would be miniscule compared to the Empire's.

Manpower: Empire, as there are quintillions in the Imperial galaxy. The sheer number of beings would dwarf the Feds. Also, the Empire has proven it has no problem hurling massed numbers against foes and taking huge casualties, especially with fighter pilots. The Emperor also has the ability to use his powers to focus his troops into a more efficient fighting force.

Firepower: Ship-to-ship, the consensus seems to be that the phasers of a Fed starship are more powerful than the Empire's turbolasers. Not sure how to prove that, though. In any event, on a 1:1 ratio we will say the Fed have more firepower in their weapons. BUT the ISDs have hundreds of turbolasers, whereas the Fed ships seem to have only one?

Maneuverability: Federation, hands down. Just look at the Defiant. No Imp capital ship could do that. The TIEs could, but they are shieldless cannonfodder.

Tactics: Um, well, the Empire seems to be pretty stupid tactics-wise. A lot of this has to do with cockiness I guess, but also with corruption within the military, I wager. Think the Feds would have an advantage here.

But here's the kicker:

The Imps are evil, the Feds are (relatively) good. Ergo of course the Feds will win, because in any Sci-Fi worth a darn, the good guys always win in the end. So, Feds win.

[OzzyKP]

Ahh... Species 8472

thats where Woke got the name from. I knew it was a Star Trek thing, but some light has been shed. At last.

[Imran Siddiqui]

All I have to say is that if the Galactic Empire can't beat a woefully underfunded, disorganized band of rebels within their own territority, then I don't think they'd be too successful against the Federation either.

Remember the only reason those rebels won was because of Luke Skywalker. The Great Man theory of history .

[Boris Godunov]

Yeah, but the Feds have Jean-Luc Picard, and Benjamin Sisko, and Chief O'Brien. They can't lose.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ah, Vader and Sideous can take them.

Maybe they can even ressurect Tyranus and Maul .

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Where do you pull this assumption from? Stormtroopers are human and the Borg have demonstrated no inability to assimilate humanity into the Collective.

Oh? And the Borg are going to assimiltae them right through their armor, are they?

The Empire has demonstrated no ability to vary the energy frequency of thier weapons and as such thier laser weaponry would become ineffective after the initial assault. From that point on it would likely be Wolf 359 redux.

Hold on here, the Imperials don't fire from one frequency. They fire energy weapons that cover a broad range of frequencies.

And, as I've already pointed out, the Borg cubes are anything but impervious. Go back and re-watch First Contact.

Boris

::shakes head::

Manueverablilty: So? God thing they have those, whattaya call it.... turrets! Besides, Imperial Star Destroyers are built to line up and slug it out with other big ships. Most ST ships are about 900 meters too short.


Tactics: Oh yeah, like the Federation is any better. The famous "Flying wall" routine.


Good wins:No cheating outta it!

and....

Yeah, but the Feds have Jean-Luc Picard, and Benjamin Sisko, and Chief O'Brien. They can't lose.

You mean...a Frenchmen, a Cajun (Frenchman with hot sauce!), and a Irishman? Boy, those are winners....

[Boris Godunov]

Manueverablilty: So? God thing they have those, whattaya call it.... turrets! Besides, Imperial Star Destroyers are built to line up and slug it out with other big ships. Most ST ships are about 900 meters too short.

So? Take a lesson from history: The Spanish Armada. The English were outnumbered, even given the weather problems of the Spanish. The Spanish ships were regarded as the best things in the world, they had far more cannons and were much larger. The English whipped them--soundly--using smaller, more maneuverable craft with fewer guns (but had longer range).

I think the Defiant could easily take out an ISD without getting more than a few scratches, because the ISD's turrets wouldn't be able to hit it. (Notice how in RotJ the SSD's turrets couldn't even hit that damned A-Wing, even though Piett had ordered all the guns concentrated to protect the bridge tower. Also, given that the Imperials are always lousy shots--stormtroopers, anyone?--I don't think they have the aim to put holes in Swiss cheese).

And the "Line up and slug it out" tactic is what helped doom the Empire, as the Rebels figured out it was better to do hit and run, and to just evade them. Also, if they parked themselves directly in front of an ISD, the ISD loses about 80% of its firing power, as it can only use the forward turbolasers. The firing arch on the Fed phasers is, IIRC, 360 degrees.

And considering the Imps have Ozzel and Tarkin and those types, I think the Feds would be able to whip them man-to-man. And again, the Imps can't even shoot straight. The stormtroopers are supposedly the elite soldiers, and they couldn't hit the broadside of a Bantha.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Oh? And the Borg are going to assimiltae them right through their armor, are they?

Yes, why wouldn't they be able to do that? Let's be honest with ourselves here. The armor isn't that substantive which is embematic of the Empire's indifferent attitude toward the lives of thier men. In addition to that, they aren't the best shots in the world.

Hold on here, the Imperials don't fire from one frequency. They fire energy weapons that cover a broad range of frequencies.

I'd like a canon source for this.

And, as I've already pointed out, the Borg cubes are anything but impervious. Go back and re-watch First Contact.

Go back and watch the Best of Both Worlds I,II.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Originally posted by Lonestar
Oh? And the Borg are going to assimiltae them right through their armor, are they?

Yes, why wouldn't they be able to do that? Let's be honest with ourselves here. The armor isn't that substantive which is embematic of the Empire's indifferent attitude toward the lives of thier men. In addition to that, they aren't the best shots in the world.

Well, going by the official stats of the RPG, the Stormtrooper armor is effective actually. Judging by those mechanics, the troopers who get shot in the films and fall aren't dead, merely wounded. The armor absorbs most of the blast, so it's just enough to knock them off their feet, maybe stun them for a bit. Naturally, that doesn't help the ones who fall into massive pits...

And it still doesn't explain their lousy aim.

[Lonestar]

Boris

I hope that "Brahms" sig line refers to a chain of Ice Cream Stores in the South.

Anyway, where was I?

Star Destroyers were built under the assumption that rebelling systems and Sectors might use their defense fleets to fight them. Obviously, that didn't happen.

However over, you have to remember two things about why the SSD went down.

(1) When Palpatine was whacked by Vader, all thoseImperial servicemen suddenly had decreases in coordination. (Heir to the Empire) Why? Because the Emperor had been using the force to help fine-tune the Imperials sense for the Duration of the battle.

(2)Starfighters. The Empire has them in abundance, far more so than the Federation. Not only that, but they are smaller and far more manueverable than ST fighters, both from on-screen and other SW sources. Weapons might be heavier too, and could probaly cause the much vaunted Defiant (which, I might add, fell apart to the Breen version of the Ion Cannon) much trouble. Woot!


(3) I'd rather have a squad of Stormtroopers over Ensign Redshirt anyday.

(4) And considering the Federation has types like Picard and Janeway....hmmm....I'll take Grand Admiral Thrawn over a room full of Starfleet Admirals anyday.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Yes, why wouldn't they be able to do that? Let's be honest with ourselves here. The armor isn't that substantive which is embematic of the Empire's indifferent attitude toward the lives of thier men. In addition to that, they aren't the best shots in the world.

No worse than the Redshirts(tm). In fact, maybe a bit better.

I'd like a canon source for this.

Oh? Official ain't good enough for ya?

Go back and watch the Best of Both Worlds I,II.

We saw, in BoBW, ONE ship fight a Borg Cube. Clearly, a Cube's stress tolerance is over whatever a Galaxy-class ship can dish out.

However, by First Contact, we see dozens of Federation ships going at it, by that point having caused "moderate damage" to the outer hull, using just phasers, photon torpedos, and quantum torpedos(which are really just souped up photon torps)