Official Star Wars Kicks Arse Thread

[Saint Marcus]

Anyone who thinks the Empire can beat the Borg is just plain crazy.

Stormtroopers vs Drones:

would be rather funny seeing all those million of stormtroopers fire and not even killing a single drone. Borg 1, Empire 0

Number of resources:

The Borg only hold about a quarter of a galaxy, and the Empire some 90%(?) of one. However, the Borg are a lot more efficient in their collective working towards a single goal. still: 1-1

Number of capital ships:

25k on the Imperial side, though never many in one area. Unsure of the number of Borg ships. I'll look it up. 1-1

Speed:

Transwarp vs Hyperdrive? Easy. 2-1 for the Borg

Tactics:

Borg aren't exactly master tacticians, but at least 10 times better than the Empire's tactics (or lack thereof). 3-1


More to follow.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
You got a cold there, Dinodoc?

Can you explain why Shadows of the Empire isn't canon, Mr. Chairman?

[pchang]

Storm Troopers?

For anyone who says Storm Troopers are tough, I have one word for you, "Ewoks". Please explain how a bunch of oversized, animated teddybears with stone age technology managed to penetrate "neutronium" enhanced armor?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Anyone who thinks the Empire can beat the Borg is just plain crazy.

Stormtroopers vs Drones:

would be rather funny seeing all those million of stormtroopers fire and not even killing a single drone. Borg 1, Empire 0

Bah, Stormtroopers hit oppenents Plenty. Both in ANH, and ROTJ.

Empire 1, Borg 0

The Borg only hold about a quarter of a galaxy, and the Empire some 90%(?) of one. However, the Borg are a lot more efficient in their collective working towards a single goal. still: 1-1

(acutally the Empire has more like 2/3s a Galaxy that is signifignatly larger than the milky way)

Effective in working togather? If that were so, they would have conquered the Milky Way galaxy a thousand years ago. Clearly, the Borg have no idea as to how to use the resources at their desposal.

Number of capital ships:

25k on the Imperial side, though never many in one area. Unsure of the number of Borg ships. I'll look it up. 1-1

No, 25,000 Imperator-Star Destroyers. There;s a difference. There are many more thousands of capital ships.

For the Borg, we know they have "Many Hundreds" (call it 700) as the low-end estimate, because that was the number of Borg Cubes Species 8472 had destroyed by the time of Scorpian .

Transwarp vs Hyperdrive? Easy. 2-1 for the Borg

I think not, little Dutchman. As we saw in Endgame the Borg require Conduits for truly transglaactic speedy travel. While they do have Transwarp drives outside of conduits, they are signifigantly slowly. (remember when Voyage stole that "Transwarp Conduit" {wa?}, and when they fired it up, they only moved about 5oo ly years for a couple of minutes.)

Tactics:

Borg aren't exactly master tacticians, but at least 10 times better than the Empire's tactics (or lack thereof). 3-1

Tactics? So? Ever hear of the phrase, God supports He with the biggest artillary?In ROTJ we saw the Capitalships using their ample weapon output slugging it out with each other individually because SW ships are so large that tactical manuevers are impractical. SW Tacties seems to decree that Starfighters complement Capital ships attacks, while ST tactics seem to involve using ground battle terms ("Flank") can lining up in a big wall and going at 'em. No better than SW Tactics, in fact, a little bit worse as ST fleets lack combinedarms naval tactics.

More to follow.

I bet.

Can you explain why Shadows of the Empire isn't canon, Mr. Chairman?

It's "Official" which menas it's canon unless contradicted by the movies.

For anyone who says Storm Troopers are tough, I have one word for you, "Ewoks". Please explain how a bunch of oversized, animated teddybears with stone age technology managed to penetrate "neutronium" enhanced armor?

Go back and watch ROTJ, and you'll notcie the Stormtroopers were laying the Sturmtruppen Smackdown(tm) on the Ewoks until that damn Wookie hijacked the AT-ST. And let's be honest, they were fighting a bunch of primatives, would you have suspected they'd take one over and use it as a rallying point?

Also, it's called Plasteel. Neutronium is a anomoly, it's refered to as a superhard metal alloy in both ST and SW. (Mostly on ship Hulls and Blast doors.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

The problem is who knew about the clones existence.

Palpy (of course), Dooku, and after Obi-Won went across the galaxy... the Jedi Council.

However, they do question why they were built... after all in the end Yoda says "Begun, the clone war has." Which would indicate that clones will fight clones. Therefore they know who has authorized the clones isn't a good guy... yet they don't know it was Palpy (remember Obi-Won finds it out). I believe that Palpy uses the Clone Army once the Jedi Council tell him that they are out there (of course he knows that, but isn't going to give it away).

[DinoDoc]

I'd like a response to my 20-05-2002 00:29 post, Mr. Chairman.

[Saint Marcus]

Stormtroopers hit oppenents Plenty.

but the Borg will addapt to the Stormtroopers fire. Will be an easy victory.

For the Borg, we know they have "Many Hundreds" (call it 700)

In one single battle alone, the Borg lost some 360 ships. And that was just a fraction of what they had. The problem was, that they kept losing hundreds of ships every few hours or so against 8472. But we know the Borg are masters at rebuilding their ships/collective (in TNG the Borg were hit with that virus. in Voyager, they are already stronger than ever).


Three more notes:

Borg have transporters

Borg ships (or star trek ships in general) can destroy entire planets. Only the DS in Starwars can do that.

Borg can travel through time. They could simply change history in a way that the Republic's grand army would never have been created. And the Jedis alone will be overrun in days by the Collective.

[Boris Godunov]

Does something in Shadows of the Empire contradict the films?

[Saint Marcus]

Most ST ships are about 900 meters too short.

Borg Cubes are way bigger.

[pchang]

Ewoks

While the Ewoks were losing at first, the Storm Troopers were still taking losses. Full Battle Armor (Plasteel/Neutronium enhanced - should it matter), high energy weapons, superior com and control,...they shouldn't have taken any losses. In fact, I think current day US commandos would have done better.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


The crew of the Super Star Destroyer Executor might disagree with you.

What? Theat Starfighters are more agile? Hardly. Go read the ROTJ novelization, the A-wing pilot wanted to take a few more Imperials with him (Bonzai!!!!)

No they aren't. Seeing Attack of the Clones must have convinced you of that much at least.

What changed with AOTC? We saw the Basic concept of the Death Star, clones that took many years to make...Those are called "chuckles" which can easily be worked into the continuity.

What more do you need to know?

Well, we need to know how much damage the Wolf 359 Squadron inflicted on the Borg Cube. We saw in First Contact Starfleet ships inflicting massive damage on the Cube, without changing frequencies. Go back and watch BoBW, the Phaser beam visibly changes when the Enterprise changes frequency.

This leads me to conclude that the Cube at Wolf 359 did probaly take "moderate damage to the outer hull" (at least)

The Federation, unlike the Empire, has shown an ability to improve thier use of tactics. They have developed whole classes of ships that were specifically designed to fight the Borg.

That isn't Tactics, that's strategy! Strategy!

They weren't able to accomplish that before the Cube wasd able to complete its mission: The assimilation of Earth.

::Shrugs:: still were bale to inflict massive damage on the Borg Cube, far more then the famous "2% power drop" number from BoBW.

What makes you think that the Borg would send one Cube to conquer the territory the size of the Empire?

And we've all seen how great the Borg are at long range planning, right? They've dominated their section of the Galaxy for thousands of years, but haven't even taken over the whole quadrant yet....

Two and a half losses in three major battles isn't an impressive track record.

What are you talking about?

The Empire eventually had to drive the Rebels off Yavin, whcih they obviously did.

They did Defeat the Rebels at Hoth.

And, dispite ultimately loosing Endor, they did amazing damage to the Rebel fleet, taking out several Capital ships the Rebellion couldn't really afford to loose.


Happy DinoDoc?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus

Borg ships (or star trek ships in general) can destroy entire planets. Only the DS in Starwars can do that.

But a single Imperial Destroyer can reduce the surface of a planet to slag in a matter of hours, according to the films. That's just as good as destroying it.

Borg can travel through time. They could simply change history in a way that the Republic's grand army would never have been created. And the Jedis alone will be overrun in days by the Collective.

And this, IMO, is the breaker for why ST is more ludircrous and far-fetched than SW ever was. The paradoxes created by the Borg Time travel (and by Kirk & Co.'s for that matter) were totally ignored.

[Saint Marcus]

But a single Imperial Destroyer can reduce the surface of a planet to slag in a matter of hours

hours? the small combined romulan-cardasian fleet only took minutes to destroy a planet.

And this, IMO, is the breaker for why ST is more ludircrous and far-fetched than SW ever was.

Oh yeah the force is really believable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

At least the force is consistant .

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


but the Borg will addapt to the Stormtroopers fire. Will be an easy victory.

I think not. Blasters use plasma charges (essentially superheated helium) which, unlike phasers, has no coherant frequency. In addition SW still has slugthrowers (Machine Guns) in widespread use.

In one single battle alone, the Borg lost some 360 ships. And that was just a fraction of what they had. The problem was, that they kept losing hundreds of ships every few hours or so against 8472. But we know the Borg are masters at rebuilding their ships/collective (in TNG the Borg were hit with that virus. in Voyager, they are already stronger than ever).

We don't know that they were "losing hundreds of ships every few hours", thats supposition. We also don't know the extent of their recovery from the S8472 invasion.

Three more notes:

Borg have transporters

So? Personnel heavy ships like ISD could repell any boarding party. That's assuming Transporters cut through SW shields.

Borg ships (or star trek ships in general) can destroy entire planets. Only the DS in Starwars can do that.

bzzzzzztttt!!!

They can destroy surfaces of planets, like SW ships can. (ever hear of Base Delat Zero?). The only time we've seen a planet physically destroyed was with the S8472 ships.

Borg can travel through time. They could simply change history in a way that the Republic's grand army would never have been created. And the Jedis alone will be overrun in days by the Collective.

Boy, it didn't take you too long to pull out the "Time Travel" card, did it? I guess you didin't step back and think as to why the Borg vessel in FC only used Time travel in Orbit of Earth. Could it be that, the Borg do not truly use Time Travel per se, but can just predict when a fissure in time will appear?(much like the "Great Machine" on []iBabylon5[/i])

The Jedis alone would smack the Borg. At least Battle droids have guns.

Besides, we're talking Empire/Borg here, not Old Republic stuff.