Official Star Wars Kicks Arse Thread

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


hours? the small combined romulan-cardasian fleet only took minutes to destroy a planet.

Nope, the estimated that it would take 7 hours to burn away the crust. While they may have fried (operative word, may, we saw no such evidence) 30% of the surface in one volly, that's more indicateive that they had special "One shot" weapons ready to knock out whatever defenses the Founders may have had.

Oh yeah the force is really believable.

I guess you never heard of Taoism, eh? You aren't very cosmopolitan....

I need to run, but I'll be back for more of the....

Imperial Smackdown!(tm)

[Usually Insane]

go for it! go for it!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
What? Theat Starfighters are more agile?

No, they would disagree with you that Stardestroyer gunners hit fighters with regularity.

What changed with AOTC?

Fett's origin for one thing.

We saw in First Contact Starfleet ships inflicting massive damage on the Cube, without changing frequencies.

They were obviously changing frequencies of both thier weapons and shields, Lonestar. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to have been able to stand up to the Cube for as long as they did, much less damage it.

The Borg even took a direct hit from a beam directed from the main deflector dish of the Enterprise without blinking.

That isn't Tactics, that's strategy! Strategy!

That's another thing that the Empire was never able to improve during thier fight with the Rebellion.

::Shrugs:: still were bale to inflict massive damage on the Borg Cube, far more then the famous "2% power drop" number from BoBW.

And the Borg still won in thier mission. Despite the assault by the Fed ships.

What are you talking about?

I would definately call the battles at Yavin and Endor losses for the Empire due to the fact that the Rebellion was able to inflict heavy damage to the Empire (Two Death Stars & destruction of a fleet) and escape more or less intact.

Hoth was only a partial sucess for the Empire because they were only able to accomplish one of thier goals (the capture of Echo Base) while the other (capture of Rebellion leadership) eluded thier grasp.

A conventional army looses by not winning. A guerrilla army wins by not loosing.

Happy DinoDoc?

Yes.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


No, they would disagree with you that Stardestroyer gunners hit fighters with regularity.

Surely you wouldn't expect a Battleship's 16in guns to take out a fighter, would you? Then why Turbolasers. Remember, Fighters take out fighters, not the otherway around.

Fett's origin for one thing.

So? It's "still canon unless contradicted by the movie". So, as the man said, "neener neener".

They were obviously changing frequencies of both thier weapons and shields, Lonestar. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to have been able to stand up to the Cube for as long as they did, much less damage it.

I didn't see those phasers changing like they did in BoBW, and I saw photon Torpedos and Quantum torpedos inflicting damage on the Cube. Obviously, the "Invincilbe Cube" is a myth.

The Borg even took a direct hit from a beam directed from the main deflector dish of the Enterprise without blinking.

Yep, after they took over a guy who know the CO intimately. Thus, the Locutus personality probaly figured out he would have done that long ago. So, "provisions were made".

That's another thing that the Empire was never able to improve during thier fight with the Rebellion.

Well, that was more Palpatine's fault than the Imperial Armed Forces Command.

And the Borg still won in thier mission. Despite the assault by the Fed ships.

The point is, if laughable Federation weapons could inflict that kinda damage on a Borg Cube, Imperial Capital ships could eat one for lunch.

I would definately call the battles at Yavin and Endor losses for the Empire due to the fact that the Rebellion was able to inflict heavy damage to the Empire (Two Death Stars & destruction of a fleet) and escape more or less intact.

Ah...but there was another Battle at Yavin, when the Imperials eventually drove them off planet. (The pursuit was fubared when a ISD dropped outta hyperspace right on top of the Executor)

And the Fleet wasn't destroyed at Endor, several Star Destroyers made it out.

Hoth was only a partial sucess for the Empire because they were only able to accomplish one of thier goals (the capture of Echo Base) while the other (capture of Rebellion leadership) eluded thier grasp.

In additon, the Rebeliion left behind much equipment they couldn't really afford to lose. Worked out pretty damn well, I think. Although Ozzel still deserved being choked.

A conventional army looses by not winning. A guerrilla army wins by not loosing.

That's true.

Yes.

Good. When you cease this bizarre, pro-trek commie lovers nonsense and join the Darkside?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
They were obviously changing frequencies of both thier weapons and shields, Lonestar. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to have been able to stand up to the Cube for as long as they did, much less damage it.

Then how do you explain the lack of a change of color in the beams? That is how they indicated the shift of frequency before.

That's another thing that the Empire was never able to improve during thier fight with the Rebellion.

Actually, according to the books, there were plenty of times the Empire outwitted and outmaneuvered the Rebellion. And Endor was actually a good plan and would have been a success if hadn't been for the Vader and the Emperor's hubris.

I would definately call the battles at Yavin and Endor losses for the Empire due to the fact that the Rebellion was able to inflict heavy damage to the Empire (Two Death Stars & destruction of a fleet) and escape more or less intact.

There is no way Yavin can be considered a victory for the Empire, right. It was an utter disaster both for loss of manpower (A quarter-million on the DS at least were killed), and the PR blow was enormous. It is what gave the Rebellion hope and caused other worlds to flock to them.

Hoth was at best a Phyrric victory, for while the Empire routed the rebels, they didn't capture the leaders, as Dino said, and in the process lost an Admiral and 3 Imperial Destroyers that miscalculated their hyperspace jumps and slammed into the Executor (causing, btw, no damage to the Executor at all, as her shield were enough to take the blow). Not to mention that they lost their best ground commander, General Veers.

And Endor can't be anything but a disaster, as the Emperor and Vader were annihilated, along with the new DS and the Executor. However, Dino, most of the Imp fleet escaped intact, and the Rebel fleet suffered far more a casualties ship-wise if you don't include the Death Star.

[Boris Godunov]

I stand corrected, the incident with the Executor was Yavin, not Hoth. However, Yavin was still a PR nightmare that was the begining of the end for the Empire.

[Saint Marcus]

I'm too tired tonight to go into details now, so I'll post it tomorrow.

one note: let's say the Romulans or Klingons decide to join the fight against the Empire. I reckon they'd be able to wage a rather effective guerilla war with their cloaking devices. decloak, strike, cloak, repeat until end of Empire. Just imagine the damage the Empire would suffer if a group of cloaked Warbirds decided to pay Corusant a visit.

enough for today. must...go...to...sleep....

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
I'm too tired tonight to go into details now, so I'll post it tomorrow.

one note: let's say the Romulans or Klingons decide to join the fight against the Empire. I reckon they'd be able to wage a rather effective guerilla war with their cloaking devices. decloak, strike, cloak, repeat until end of Empire. Just imagine the damage the Empire would suffer if a group of cloaked Warbirds decided to pay Corusant a visit.

enough for today. must...go...to...sleep....

Capital ships in SW have cloaking devices as well.

ESB:

Captain Needa: "No ship that small has a cloaking device!"

(Referring to the Millenium Falcon, ergo implying that larger ships do have them)

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
I'm too tired tonight to go into details now, so I'll post it tomorrow.

one note: let's say the Romulans or Klingons decide to join the fight against the Empire. I reckon they'd be able to wage a rather effective guerilla war with their cloaking devices. decloak, strike, cloak, repeat until end of Empire. Just imagine the damage the Empire would suffer if a group of cloaked Warbirds decided to pay Corusant a visit.

enough for today. must...go...to...sleep....

(1) It's easy to detect cloaked Romulan ships. (hhmmm...what are all those little black holes heading this way?)

(2) Coruscnat, like most Core Worlds, has planetary shielding. All they would have to do is fire it up after the first volley, whiel the Golans blast away at the Cloaked ships.

(3) It would be niegh impossible for cloaked ships to get in and out of Coruscant orbit easily. You've seen how heavily crowded traffic is for that planet. People would bump into it. It would be tough enough finding a 1.3 kilometer whole in the satillite/skyhook/Golan Platforms orbits, much less a huge gap required for a group of Warbirds.

(4) Klingon ships have got to be the most fragile vessels of the Alpha Quadrant. They couldn't pull it off either.

[Boris Godunov]

Why can't anyone spell Coruscant correctly?

If we're going to be consistent with the arguments here, we have to decide who will fight who. The Empire is the consistent SW group, but the ST side keeps vascillating between Federation/Borg/Romulan & Klingon. Pick one and stick with it.

Barring my caveat about the good guys always winning in sci-fi (which is still my ultimate arbitrator here, personally), I think the Empire would eventually dispatch with the Federation through sheer erosion, and would EASILY whoop the Romulans/Klingons. The Borg are the only significant threat I see for them.

[Lonestar]

Oops, so I misplaced a "N" in there.

Live with it, Boris.

Anyway, I assert that the Empire could not only take down the Federation, but the Borg, and the whole of the Alpha Quadrant.

Assuming, of course, The Empire would go the "Play the tribes off each other" route, in additon to the "Use superior power &speed to wipe them out. all of them.".

[Saint Marcus]

can't sleep, I'm back

If we're going to be consistent with the arguments here, we have to decide who will fight who. The Empire is the consistent SW group, but the ST side keeps vascillating between Federation/Borg/Romulan & Klingon. Pick one and stick with it.

why pick one? The Empire doesn't ally with others, while the Klingons/Romulans/Federation and even the Borg do.

The Borg are the only significant threat I see for them.

Dominion. Eventhough their Alfa adventure ended, they are still all powerfull in the Gamma quadrant. If it wasn't for those damn Prophets the Alfa Quadrant would have been quickly overrun.

[Saint Marcus]

BTW, why is everyone talking about the Empire anyway? As we saw in RotJ, it doesn't even exist anymore.

And if those pesky rebels could pull it off, I'm sure even Picard can do it in a shuttlepod

[Boris Godunov]

why pick one? The Empire doesn't ally with others.

Sure they do. The Hutts, the Corporate Sector...they will ally with who they need to.

Dominion. Eventhough their Alfa adventure ended, they are still all powerfull in the Gamma quadrant. If it wasn't for those damn Prophets the Alfa Quadrant would have been quickly overrun.

Alpha, alpha, alpha. . So now that's 5 you've oscillated between, throwing to the Dominion in the mix. Aren't we only talking Alpha Quadrant anyway.

BTW, why is everyone talking about the Empire anyway? As we saw in RotJ, it doesn't even exist anymore.

What kind of logic is this? All of SW takes place "A Long Long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." It's a hypothetical matchup of two (or more, for the ST vascillators) fictional sci fi orgs. But we've been consistently assuming the Empire at its peak of power, pre-Endor.

And the Empire DOES exist after RotJ. Why would the loss of that one battle mean it's gone? According to the Zahn novels, the Empire simply fragments but is still a potent enemy for the New Republic. The New Republic also had to fight tooth-and-nail to seize Coruscant. Don't forget the threat posed by Thrawn. No, the Empire lived on, albeit weakened.

[Saint Marcus]

Aren't we only talking Alpha Quadrant anyway.

The Borg are from Delta

acutally the Empire has more like 2/3s a Galaxy that is signifignatly larger than the milky way

where do those humans come from?

According to the Zahn novels

that is canon.

So now that's 5 you've oscillated between

If a big threat comes along, I know they will all ally against a common enemy. We know the Borg do this. The Federation does it all the time. As do the others.

If we add the dominion the war will be over pretty quickly. We know they are friendly towards the Federation now thanks to Odo, so it won't be hard to convince them to fight along side them. Also, even before the Dominion War even began, the Dominion had some temporary "alliances" with the Federation to take out a mutual threat. With those big Jem'Hadar ships (the one from the ep Valiant) the Empire will be finished in no time.

Jem Hadar clone soldiers vs Stormtrooper clone soldiers? Interesting. But we know Jem Hadar are a lot tougher than Stormtroopers.

But in general I think both the Dominion and Collective could defeat the Empire one on one. So could Species 8472 btw.

8472 vs The Empire? Since the Empire doesn't have nanoprobes I don't think there is much they can do to stop the bioships from taking over the Galaxy.

So 5 scenarios: Dominion vs Empire, Collective vs Empire, Species 8472 vs Empire,
Federation/Klingons/Romulans/Cardasians vs Empire, Federation/Klingons/Breen/Romulans/Cardasians/Dominion/Borg vs Empire.

1 will be an easy win for the Empire. 2 will be evenly matched. 2 the Empire would lose.