Official Star Wars Kicks Arse Thread

[Boris Godunov]

No, the Brahms line most definitely refers to the composer, Johannes Brahms, who is the greatest musical genius of the Romantic Era.

SSD:

See my previous posts on the SSD. Another factor was strategy, though: The Imps engaged the Rebs too close to the Death Star. Had they not been within its gravity range, the SSD likely could have survived the loss of its primary bridge and the crew would have regained control. But why did the Imps engage so closely? Well, that was Palpatine's hubris, as he wanted to use the Death Star laser on them. Why? Just for effect, because given the relative size of the fleets, the Imps could have made mincemeat out of the Rebels in no time. Serious miscalculation on Palpy's part. He's about as good a strategist as Hitler was, it seems.

Fighters: The firepower of the TIEs is nothing compared to the Fed capital ships. They aren't even turbolasers, just laser cannons. They wouldn't even scratch the Fed shields. It would be like swatting a storm of gnats. Remember: TIEs = no shields.

Also, most TIE pilots aren't too experienced or skilled, as they don't tend to live long enough to be good. Even the good ones eventually get killed by stupid Imperial tactics that remind one of Russia's in WWI and WWII.

Troopers vs Redshirts: Well, yeah, but the red shirts aren't the elite, but the storm troopers are. We'd need to compare the elite fighting forces of each.

Thrawn: done in by a Noghri. What a chump.

[Alexander's Horse]

I get the impression Star Wars movies are turning into Elvis movies.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
No worse than the Redshirts(tm). In fact, maybe a bit better.

Starfleet weapons officers can hit fighters with regularity. Can you say the same about the Empire?

Oh? Official ain't good enough for ya?

I said that I'd like a canon source for the info.

We saw, in BoBW, ONE ship fight a Borg Cube. Clearly, a Cube's stress tolerance is over whatever a Galaxy-class ship can dish out.

In BoBW we saw the results of a FLEET engagement against the Borg. You'll recall that the Fed fleet was decimated at Wolf 359. I doubt that the Empire would fair much better.

However, by First Contact, we see dozens of Federation ships going at it,

Randomizing the energy frequencies of thier weapons and being led by a man that was intimately familiar with the abilities of the Cube. The Empire wouldn't have the benefit of these advantages.

[Boris Godunov]

DinoDoc, I fail to see why, after suffering an initial defeat like the Feds did at Wolf 359, they also wouldn't discover the need to vary energy frequencies. And the Imps would have far more ships to "sacrifice" towards pounding the Borg into scrap metal.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
DinoDoc, I fail to see why, after suffering an initial defeat like the Feds did at Wolf 359, they also wouldn't discover the need to vary energy frequencies. And the Imps would have far more ships to "sacrifice" towards pounding the Borg into scrap metal.

For the same reason that the Empire under Palpatine, was never able to develop the inovative tactics needed to defeat the Rebellion: arrogance and stupidity. As an example of this, they appeared to have learned nothing from thier experiences in the Yavin system.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov



Fighters: The firepower of the TIEs is nothing compared to the Fed capital ships. They aren't even turbolasers, just laser cannons. They wouldn't even scratch the Fed shields. It would be like swatting a storm of gnats. Remember: TIEs = no shields.

(more from stardestroyer.net)

TIE fighters are armed with "laser cannons", although the characteristics of these cannons are anything but laser-like. The nature and properties of laser cannons are both very well known and there is no need to repeat a discussion of those phenomena here unless you have been neglecting your studies ( ). However, we have some preliminary analysis on a possible quantification of those weapons in Federation units.

----From Luke Skywalker's strafing run in the Battle of Yavin, a single hit upon the unshielded surface of the Death Star could be seen to cause a large flash of superheated material, enough to engulf an entire X-Wing fighter and cause thermal damage to its hull despite its shields. Since armor is not flammable and lasers do not create wide-area flashes directly, one can conclude that large portions of the Death Star's surface buildings are flashing to vapor during Luke's strafing run.
----Because of the shallow angle of approach and the fact that the flashes vary in size and brightness, it is difficult to gauge the actual amount of destruction being done. However, in order to create a flash of vapour the size of an X-wing fighter, the individual blasts must be vapourizing at least one cubic metre of metal each. This is a very conservative estimate since the gas also had to shoot away from the surface so quickly it intercepted the hurtling starfighter, but it will have to suffice. At least 60GJ is required to vaporize a single cubic metre of ordinary iron, so this provides a lower limit for starfighter laser cannon energy.


-We must stress the highly conservative nature of this estimate: the DS shell was constructed of heavy armor, and Imperial armor is far superior to simple iron. In The Stele Chronicles, a TIE fighter pilot deliberately flew his unshielded fighter into the atmosphere of a planet at high speed as an evasive maneuver. The unprotected armor and transparent front window of his fighter were totally unaffected by this event- an event that would easily push ordinary iron beyond its maximum service temperatures as the 20th century Space Shuttle's ceramic heat tiles demonstrate. Furthermore, Imperial dura-armor is made by "compressing and binding neutronium, lomite, and zersium molecules together through the process of matrix acceleration", according to the SWE. The use of neutronium micro-particles as interstitial alloying elements in dura-armor is strongly suggestive of extreme mechanical and thermal toughness.

===
so, it would be considerably more than "gnats"
===

Also, most TIE pilots aren't too experienced or skilled, as they don't tend to live long enough to be good. Even the good ones eventually get killed by stupid Imperial tactics that remind one of Russia's in WWI and WWII.

Why worry about it when you outnumber your enemy 200 to one?
Besides, by Heir to the Empire, TIE fighters are, at the order of Thrawn going through more exercises and are shield. (also, the TIE/standard line was shut down and only new Intercepters were being built)

Troopers vs Redshirts: Well, yeah, but the red shirts aren't the elite, but the storm troopers are. We'd need to compare the elite fighting forces of each.

Your Federation marines suck to. Geez, didn't even have any Mortor....

Thrawn: done in by a Noghri. What a chump.

Kirk: Shot in the back.

[Boris Godunov]

Ok, Luke's X-wing may have strong lasers, but a droid (R2) survived being hit by a TIE's laser canon. Now that's pathetic.

Re: Stele Chronicles: Not canon.

Heir to the Empire: Not canon, and post- RotJ, so irrelevant, as we're assuming were putting up the Empire at its height (under Palpatine) against the Feds. Any mods to Imp ships after RotJ are therefore not allowed.

MArines vs Troopers: The Marines could at least hit their targets.

Kirk: Did I bring him up? Nooooope. But Spock would kick all them Imp asses!

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Starfleet weapons officers can hit fighters with regularity. Can you say the same about the Empire?

Yep. And the Fighters are more agile too.

Plus, like any truely progressive military, you use fighters to take out fighters, not ships.

I said that I'd like a canon source for the info.

I can't give one to you, not outside of Novels(which are considered as good as canon by LucasArts). However, as each ST Photon Torpedo tops out at 2.7E17 jouls (64.3 megatons), and Qunatums roughly twice that, and they did signifigant damage in First Contact to Borg vessels we can assume that Turbolasers, which toss out a astonishing 100 gigaton per shot would be able to rip into the Borg hull like tissue paper.

In BoBW we saw the results of a FLEET engagement against the Borg. You'll recall that the Fed fleet was decimated at Wolf 359. I doubt that the Empire would fair much better.

Did we see the actually Battle?(besides about 3 minutes of it in Emiisary) No. So we don't really know what happened, other then the Starfleet Armada (snort) assembled eventually lost, and the Enterprise, whose sensors couldn't pick up Sisko (oops) went on it's merry way.

Randomizing the energy frequencies of thier weapons and being led by a man that was intimately familiar with the abilities of the Cube. The Empire wouldn't have the benefit of these advantages.

By the time the Enterprise was reaching the battle, Data was reporting that the "Borg...have suffered moderate damage to the outer hull", a far cry from when we saw a single GCS engae the Borg Cube. Clearly, there is a stress level the Cbe has, and a few dozen Starfleet vessels break it.

While The FC armada probaly wouldn't have been able to stop the Borg before reaching Earth, they were doing enough damage to indicate they would have stoped it eventually.

And if the Federation could do it, so could the Empire.

For the same reason that the Empire under Palpatine, was never able to develop the inovative tactics needed to defeat the Rebellion: arrogance and stupidity. As an example of this, they appeared to have learned nothing from thier experiences in the Yavin system.

Obviously, they learned some things. They managed to drive to Rebels off Yavin, kick their butt at Hoth, and made sure all the fighters were out at Endor.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I don't know what Tinkai is talking about: holes? It seems bloody obvious to me that Sideous (Sid-ees, as the Kaminoans called him), who of course is Palpatine, asked for this Clone Army to begin production when Darth Maul was killed. He took Dooku and made him into Darth Tyranus (So Yoda loses a Padawan to the Dark Side as Obi-Wan will).

I don't think I ever questioned who asked for the clone army. Obviously it was Palpatine. The problem is who knew about the clones existence.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Ok, Luke's X-wing may have strong lasers, but a droid (R2) survived being hit by a TIE's laser canon. Now that's pathetic.

Re: Stele Chronicles: Not canon.

Heir to the Empire: Not canon, and post- RotJ, so irrelevant, as we're assuming were putting up the Empire at its height (under Palpatine) against the Feds. Any mods to Imp ships after RotJ are therefore not allowed.



Kirk: Did I bring him up? Nooooope. But Spock would kick all them Imp asses!

As I've already pointed ot, so long as the books ain't contradicting the movies, they are considered "canon" in Lucasfilm's collective eyes.

MArines vs Troopers: The Marines could at least hit their targets.

Yeah, but the Imperials would be using armored vehicles to lay the Imperial Smackdown(tm) on their enemies.

I'm going to bed. I'll bicker more tomorrow.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Yep. And the Fighters are more agile too.

The crew of the Super Star Destroyer Executor might disagree with you.

I can't give one to you, not outside of Novels(which are considered as good as canon by LucasArts).

No they aren't. Seeing Attack of the Clones must have convinced you of that much at least.

So we don't really know what happened, other then the Starfleet Armada (snort) assembled eventually lost,

What more do you need to know?

By the time the Enterprise was reaching the battle, Data was reporting that the "Borg...have suffered moderate damage to the outer hull", a far cry from when we saw a single GCS engae the Borg Cube. Clearly, there is a stress level the Cbe has, and a few dozen Starfleet vessels break it.

The Federation, unlike the Empire, has shown an ability to improve thier use of tactics. They have developed whole classes of ships that were specifically designed to fight the Borg.

While The FC armada probaly wouldn't have been able to stop the Borg before reaching Earth, they were doing enough damage to indicate they would have stoped it eventually.

They weren't able to accomplish that before the Cube wasd able to complete its mission: The assimilation of Earth.

And if the Federation could do it, so could the Empire.

What makes you think that the Borg would send one Cube to conquer the territory the size of the Empire?

They managed to drive to Rebels off Yavin, kick their butt at Hoth, and made sure all the fighters were out at Endor.

Two and a half losses in three major battles isn't an impressive track record.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
As I've already pointed ot, so long as the books ain't contradicting the movies, they are considered "canon" in Lucasfilm's collective eyes.

*cough*Shadows of the Empire*cough*

[DinoDoc]

BTW, in the current storyline going through the Expanded SW universe, is there any chance of clone of Thrawn appearing on the scene to battle the Vong? I know that one clone was killed on Nirauan but what are the chances that a genius of his level wouldn't have rendundancies in place?

[Ned]

Re: Official Star Wars Kicks Arse Thread

Originally posted by Carver
I just saw Attack of the Clones and it was unbelievable. This was definently the best of the five Star Wars movies and maybe the best movie of all time.

The sci-fi graphics and scenery...heaven.
The plot...duplicitous and clever.
The love story....sweet, and it doesn't suck up too much time.
The battles....more action than should be legal to have in a movie.
The charachter development...everything comes together.

The creativity present in this film is astounding: the ships, the clothes, the buildings. This film is truly beautiful to watch. Clones is the difinative science fiction masterpiece.

I want the DVD.

I agree. Clones is a great film, right there with ESB. I especially like the scene where Skywalker returns with his mother and exhibits raw hate. You could just see him slipping into the dark side.

As to the acting, IMHO, a lot better than any of the earlier series save for DarthVader, who simply is the best character ever created.

But the visual texture and detail of the film takes the genre to a new level. Amazing!

This is a must see film.

Ned

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


*cough*Shadows of the Empire*cough*

You got a cold there, Dinodoc?