Official Star Wars Kicks Arse Thread

[Arrian]

I too am just astounded at monkspider's ranking.

I haven't seen Clones yet, so I will omit that, but since the parts of a movie I deem essential are the ones being criticized (dialogue, characters, good acting), I'm not all that optomistic.

My ranking:

Empire Strikes Back****
A New Hope***1/2
Return of the Jedi***
(A LOOOOONG, DIZZYING DROP)
Phantom Menance *

The new set of characters has yet to grab me. The old set of movies rocked because of characters like Han "Sorry about the mess" Solo and Princess "Will somebody get this big walking carpet out of my way?" Leia, and the fun, sometimes even witty dialogue between them. That's why hardly anybody cared that Jedi was "blow up the deathstar 2." We just wanted to see Han, Leia, Luke & co. at it again.

I hope my fears are unfounded, and that the reviews have been wrong, and Lucas has somehow made magic again... but I doubt it.

-Arrian

[Sava]

It is better than Phantom Menace... maybe even better than Return of the Jedi, but the movie was not even close to being as good as Empire, or A New Hope.

The dialogue seemed so scripted. And there weren't any long dialogue scenes. There was obviously no chemistry between the characters. I need to watch the movie again, but I don't think there was a non-edited scene longer than 5-10 seconds. That shows that the actors were weak.

The visual effects and the sound were wonderful. That's what Lucas does best. Unfortunately, the movie was terribly written. The overall plot was good, but the screenplay was sh!t.

Overall, I give the movie 2 stars. I will not go see it in the theatres again. I have a pirated version to satisfy my appetite for watching the battle scenes. If this were the second movie ever made by Lucas in the Star Wars series, I would definitely not consider myself a fan of the series. EP1 sucked, EP2 is mediocre.

Things that EP2 LACKED:
A sense of excitement during the chase scenes (Coruscant and Asteroid). Obi-Wan's cringing in the speeder didn't convince me they were flying through a crowded city-scape. The Asteroid belt scene was equally as weak. Obi-Wan seemed quite calm while he was being chased by Fett. Especially calm for a Jedi who supposedly wasn't much of a pilot. Those scenes did not have the excitement of the Asteroid belt scene in Empire Strikes Back.

Another thing EP2 lacked was a decent lightsabre battle. If I want to see a martial arts movie, I'll go rent Jackie Chan. There was no emotion or feeling in the lightsabre battles, at least, nothing that could compare to Empire's. And the scenes were edited very poorly. The zoom was too close at times, and the angle would change at every slash (about half a second). The longest non-changing scene was in the beginning of Dooku vs Obi-Wan. They exchanged 3 slashes each in about 1.5 seconds. That is very very very very very weak. If you are going to showcase lightsabre skills, at least keep the camera steady and don't change angles so we can see that the characters actually have skill. Overall, the movie used too many camera tricks to try and make the action more exciting but in actuality, it made it look more weak.

My Rankings of SW movies:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3 (tie). Attack of the Clones
3 (tie). Return of the Jedi
5. A Phantom Menace

One thing that is really bothering me about Coruscant is the traffic. With all those flying ships, one terrorist could crash one of those huge bus shuttles into the Senate and kill the entire Republic's Government. Lucas obviously did not put too much thought into designing his settings. And what happens when there is an accident in mid-air? Both ships would crash into the surrounding buildings and kill lots of people. It just isn't practicle at all.

[Carver]

Originally posted by Tingkai
I just saw Attack of the Clones and I thought it was okay, but it missed a chance of being great.

There's a scene with Dookus and Obi Wan (If you haven't seen the movie don't read any further) where Dookus says he's on the good side, trying to stop the Sith. If this idea had been developed further, it would have been great. It could set the stage for a split among the Jedi.


When Doofus says this stuff, I thought, all right, now things are getting interesting. But instead Dookus ends up being just another servant of the dark lord. Boring.

The other thing that bugs me is where did all the military ships come from? We know where the clones were made, but what about the starships and those copter-like flyers.

And there's no explanation about the clones becoming the army of the republic. Wouldn't someone ask about how these clones came into existence and who gave the order to create them?

The latter two problems could have been dealt with quickly in two scenes, but it just gets glossed over.

Plot Spoiler Below:

Yes, Dooku is a doofus. But the critical point is that both sides, the secession movement and Republic government, are being controlled by the Chancellor. The Chancellor instigated the independence movement so that he would be given emergy powers and essentially rule as a dictator.

As for the ships and helicopter like assault craft, I think its resonable to conclude that when the rogue Jedi ordered the clones built he also knew they needed ships. Obi-Wan explains in his transmission to the Jedi council that the clones were built by a rogue Jedi that was preparing the Republic for war. So the Jedi council and the rest of the republic government know where the instant troops are coming from. Whereas, Dooku is suprised by the army his droids end up meeting. And the beautiful thing is, the Chancellor now looks like a genius for defeating the droid army.

All in all, wonderful story telling.

[Zealot]

Well, I liked it. Specially Yoda's combat!
But the saga really needs better dialogues. Bad!

[monolith94]

It's all about the characters.

No matter how good your special effects get, no matter how much money you have to waste on the most elaborate costumes, there is no subsititute for creating interesting, engaging characters.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Carver


Plot Spoiler Below:
Obi-Wan explains in his transmission to the Jedi council that the clones were built by a rogue Jedi that was preparing the Republic for war. So the Jedi council and the rest of the republic government know where the instant troops are coming from. Whereas, Dooku is suprised by the army his droids end up meeting. And the beautiful thing is, the Chancellor now looks like a genius for defeating the droid army.

All in all, wonderful story telling.

Hardly. The plot of the movie is full of wholes.

No, Obi Wan said that the clones were ordered by a Jedi who was long dead. So the council doesn't know who decided to order them. The audience is led to believe the clones will be used against the republic.

Dooku's (sp?) response when he sees the clones doesn't make any sense. He's buddies with the bounty hunter so he should know that the clones exists. So why is he surprised?

Also, none of the Jedi seem suprised to see the clones. That doesn't make sense either.

What would have made sense would be for the Clones to arrive, Dooku responding with glee (thinking that they're re-inforcements), the Jedi reacting with dispair and then everyone getting shocked when the clones (led by yoda) attack the droids. That would have added a nice twist to the story.

The battle scene could have been staged something like Zulu with the Jedi battling against overwhelming numbers and recognizing that they can't win, but still fighting. Then the Clones come in and the Jedi (and the audience) thinking that it is game over. Everything points towards a massive defeat of the Jedi, but then the clones turn out to be the republican army (with an quick explanation after the battle).

The way the battle scene is played out, there is no real suspense. The Jedi look like they're holding their own without even breaking a sweat. Compare that scene with the one in LOTR in Moria when the company is running down the hall and the orcs are swarming around them. In that scene there is a great sense that the company is about to be overrun. That feeling doesn't come over in the Attack of the Clones.

The thing that bugs me is that this could have been a great movie in the hands of a better director.

[Wernazuma III]

Of course Dooku knew about the clones. The war between clones and droids is one single plot by Palpertine (aka the imperator) and Dooku. I think Dooku doesn't even plan to win the war. The alliance he formed had only one intention: Creating a threat that legitimates the power of Palpertine. Of course Dooku had to express his surprise in front of his allies...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The thing that bugs me is that this could have been a great movie in the hands of a better director.

Exactly. Lucas has been wholed up in his Skywalker Ranch for 20 years. I'm sure he has lost touch with reality.

He's ruining his own saga

[Saint Marcus]

The movie was ok.

+ Great special effects
+ Great battle scenes
+ Great lightsaber fights (yoda kicked ass)

- Slow for the most part, too fast in the end (all the main action scenes packed in the last 15-30 mins or so)
- Bad acting at numerous times
- Story seems to be pushed in certain directions at time. It doesn't flow naturally, but seems forced.

7/10 in total, mainly thanks to the action scenes.


BTW, does anyone have any info on the rumoured eps 7-9?

[Xuenay]

Time to do some Star Wars-defending.

Spoilers below.

Originally posted by Sava
Obi-Wan seemed quite calm while he was being chased by Fett. Especially calm for a Jedi who supposedly wasn't much of a pilot. Those scenes did not have the excitement of the Asteroid belt scene in Empire Strikes Back.

He's a Jedi. Jedi are supposed to be calm and in control of their emotions all the time. Look at Classic Obi-Wan calmly letting Vader kill him/Qui-Gon calmly meditating while waiting for those ray doors open in the battle with Darth Maul. The only Jedi who openly display their excitement are ones who haven't finished their training yet.

Originally posted by Tingkai
The other thing that bugs me is where did all the military ships come from? We know where the clones were made, but what about the starships and those copter-like flyers.

I'm quoting a person on the Star Wars RPG mailing list here:

From the Cross sections book:
"When devising armaments and vehicles for the clone army, the Kaminoans
subcontracted the secret job to Rothanna Heavy Engineering. . . "

So it looks like the whole thing was a package deal. Troops, weapons, armor
and vehicles - all orchestrated by the Kaminoans.

Originally posted by Tingkai
Dooku's (sp?) response when he sees the clones doesn't make any sense. He's buddies with the bounty hunter so he should know that the clones exists. So why is he surprised?

As another poster said, of course he'll act surprised around his allies.

Also, none of the Jedi seem suprised to see the clones. That doesn't make sense either.

Yoda: "Take the Jedi we have and go help Obi-Wan. I'll go see the Kaminoans."

Sounds like they knew they were coming to me.

What would have made sense would be for the Clones to arrive, Dooku responding with glee (thinking that they're re-inforcements),

Reinforcements from where? The combat didn't take very long, they would've had to have known in advance that a massive battle was going to break out. How? Only the Jedi knew that, so obviously Dooku couldn't have assumed that they were reinforcements for him (even moreso considering that the plan *called* for him to lose, so even if he did know, he wouldn't have called for reinforcements. In any case, he wouldn't have acted with glee).

Now that would have been a plot hole.

The Jedi look like they're holding their own without even breaking a sweat.

Well, doh. They're Jedi. Of course they're supposed to be holding their own against overwhelming odds without even breaking a sweat. Did you see the Phantom Menace?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
The movie was ok.

+ Great special effects
+ Great battle scenes
+ Great lightsaber fights (yoda kicked ass)

- Slow for the most part, too fast in the end (all the main action scenes packed in the last 15-30 mins or so)
- Bad acting at numerous times
- Story seems to be pushed in certain directions at time. It doesn't flow naturally, but seems forced.

7/10 in total, mainly thanks to the action scenes.


BTW, does anyone have any info on the rumoured eps 7-9?

Nice SM... at least we can agree on Star Wars

Lucas says he won't be doing 7-9... Because Star Wars is such a cash cow, I think that either someone close to Lucas will pursue that story, Lucas will license it to someone, or they won't get made at all.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't think 7-9 will get made at all... but it would be interesting, in say the end of Episode 7 (or 8), when Luke turns to the Dark Side.

[Bosh]

According to the pirated version of the script I got from Vel, the clones were ordered by Sai-dayas (or something like that) which obviously = Sidious our beloved Emperor to be...

[Boris Godunov]

Any Ep 7-9 would have to decide whether to follow an established story (Like the Zahn novels or Dork Empire), or go its own way, I guess. Lucas has said time and time again he doesn't care what the books say, he doesn't consider them official, and if he were to make something contradicting the books, well, tough sh*t for the books. But since he's not going to do 7-9, I guess it is fair game. I'd like to see the Zahn novels done myself.

[Sprayber]

Two very important questions.


Could AOTC stand on it's own as a movie without the rest of the saga?

Could AOTC stand on it's on without having to go out and get a source book or look on the internet for explanations?