Israeli governement won't allow the creation of a Palestinian state.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Ecthelion


Look spray, I've got friends there... have you never ever thouhgt of civilians... and the children!

besides, what about trade? totally interrupt? or totally continue? weapons trade?

Cut them both off on weapons. (do you think the Arabs would do this?)

[Ecthy]

I don't know... anyway, cutting them off would cause major difficulties, diplomacy-wise... they're already pissed off because we stopped sending them that tank stuff

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
I knew he'd appreciate my form of today, though Mark will give me 10% at least

Siro, what do you think, isn't Israel already superior to the Pals? Don't they need European support to be protected from evil right-wing forces in Israel (such as Netanyahu) and to get their own state? Don't you sometimes think it's rightful of us to be in favour of them, at least a little? We don'T want your state to disappear, we just want peace.

Besides, even despite of said superiority, they could suicide-bomb many territories, also when being eradicated (the terrorist infrastructure that is), so the buggers should think about it twice

I know this is addressed to Siro, but. You may not want to see Israel disapper. Europe may not want to see Israel disapper. but many of the rank and file Arabs do. And many of the official state polices is this as well. Jordan is perhaps the only sane country in the Mid East. They gave up any claim to the West Bank to avoid eactly what has happening to Israel. I don't want to see people die. But sometimes you have to let them come to the conclusion for themeselves that there are things worth living for.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by atawa
And it doesnt matter they drove the palestinians into exile from their homlands ?

and it doesn't matter that war was started by the Arabs

[Ecthy]

I'd be surprised if that old ratehr religious attitude is still dominant over economic realism. Though I must say I don't know if there are any economic ties at all and how strong they are. Apart from that: Egypt has made peace, Jordan has done that too. I don't know how much Syria is to be taken serious, but Lebanon is just a laugh, and the Pals wouldn't be a threat if it wasn't for the extremist groups (not the people, folks, and not the religion either). Iraw is being dealt with anyway

So what's the matter? Why can't they send Helis with commandos at night and snipe down all guys that lead extremist groups? Why do they attack houses with misslies, in living quarters? Why do they need tanks and attack camps full of civilians to destroy an infrastructure that could be damaged more efficiently with the right team of commandos in a night's action?

[Ecthy]

Well Spray, it never matters which side started the war since war is always started by the leadership not the people. And if the people support the leadership and the war, they're being stupid - not a reason to drive them out of their territories in a bloody mess. (example: Germans out of Bohemia, Silesia and Prussia in 1945-1947. Do you support that move of the Poles and Czechs?)

[atawa]

Originally posted by Sprayber


and it doesn't matter that war was started by the Arabs

Yup bu the Arabs, the palestinians were just stuck in the middle, mind you, most of the middle east dont give a **** about the palestinians, they are only 'usefull' in the arab-israeli conflict

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
I'd be surprised if that old ratehr religious attitude is still dominant over economic realism. Though I must say I don't know if there are any economic ties at all and how strong they are. Apart from that: Egypt has made peace, Jordan has done that too. I don't know how much Syria is to be taken serious, but Lebanon is just a laugh, and the Pals wouldn't be a threat if it wasn't for the extremist groups (not the people, folks, and not the religion either). Iraw is being dealt with anyway

So what's the matter? Why can't they send Helis with commandos at night and snipe down all guys that lead extremist groups? Why do they attack houses with misslies, in living quarters? Why do they need tanks and attack camps full of civilians to destroy an infrastructure that could be damaged more efficiently with the right team of commandos in a night's action?

Nowhere have I said the Israelies are nice or exactly smart in their methods.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by atawa


Yup bu the Arabs, the palestinians were just stuck in the middle, mind you, most of the middle east dont give a **** about the palestinians, they are only 'usefull' in the arab-israeli conflict

They aren't exacty innocent bystanders now are they? But your right about those in Damascus and other capitals not caring about the Pal. Why use your Army when you can use Pal teenagers to kill Israelies.

[atawa]

Well they didnt do much damage in the arab-israeli wars.
But when you have a whole generation growing up in refugee camps where most of the money comes from islamic extremists this is what you might expect......

[Ecthy]

you didn't answer my second post

[Sirotnikov]

atawa - why are there refugee camps? why weren't they partially relocated, but instead perpetuated in such status?

arab states wanted to use them as a weapon.

why since 1993 were refugees not given permanent housing?

because of a strategic decision not to do that before an agreement with israel. so that the refugees will be a "pressuing force" and that they will be a fertile ground to terror.

the money was used to get weapons, cars, villas for leaders and so on.

you'll see dozens of villas in the PA for people close to the leaders.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Ecthelion

Siro, what do you think, isn't Israel already superior to the Pals? Don't they need European support to be protected from evil right-wing forces in Israel (such as Netanyahu) and to get their own state? Don't you sometimes think it's rightful of us to be in favour of them, at least a little? We don'T want your state to disappear, we just want peace.

I understand your sentiment. I do.

But that's like saying "well, the americans were much more stronger, so we supported the japanese".

Since the sides aren't interested in an agreement, one side has to win.

What you are doing, is preventing a victory. This simply perpetuates the conflict.

[Ecthy]

And why are the sides not interested in an agreement? Who says so? Wasn't there a pretty good agreement only weeks before Sharon got elelcted? BTW, is it true he only got as many votes as Netanyahu got in the election that he lost to Barak (as in low turnout made Sharon win)?

[Drefsab]

The US could cede LA to Mexico