Announcement

**Ecowiz Returns** · May 13, 2002, 07:39

Last time I've read something about it, Israel, ie, the Israelli Citizens, particularly those who have the power to vote, gave their votes to a coalition of parties that defendend the right of the Palestinians to have their one State, provided there was assurances that both Israel and Palestine would live in Peace.

I think in one of our latest ME threads, someone (I don't know if it was Nathan or Eli or someone else) remembered a recent poll that resulted in a consensual aproval of a Palenstinian State, by the Israelli people, again, provided that Security was achieved.

The way I see it, by changing their political program, the Likhud Party simply stated that they (the most important party in the Government Coalition) do not feel binded to the political program by which they were elected. In my opinion, they lost democratic legitimacy, and those parties in the coalition that defend the birth of a Palestinian Nation should exit the Government and make it fall.

That way, the Israelli People will be allowed to make clear their position regarding the violence and lack of security and the way they fell this situation is to be fought and future occurences prevented. Hopefully, they will not follow Likud's lead.

I think it's time Labour Party leaves ofice. I simply cannot imagine Nobel Prize winner Shimon Perez accepting a policy diametrically opposed to the one that awarded him that honour.

**Rogan Josh** · May 13, 2002, 08:11

It is not the Israeli government though. It is the Likhud party who have made this declaration. Just because the government is controlled by Likhud does not make it a government declaration. They still need the support of other parties to stay in power.

**MrWhereItsAt** · May 13, 2002, 08:35

I've heard that even Sharon (sp?) is less than happy with this decision. When that happens, you know it's the extreme of the extreme that are the problem here - riling up the party that has all the power over the PM.

**Saint Marcus** · May 13, 2002, 08:37

It is not the Israeli government though. It is the Likhud party who have made this declaration. Just because the government is controlled by Likhud does not make it a government declaration. They still need the support of other parties to stay in power.

I am quite sure the extreme-right parties would be happy to once again embrace Likud.

**Sava** · May 13, 2002, 09:14

SM, you are such an idiot.

1. The Serbs didn't allow the creation of a Kosovo state because Kosovo is SERBIAN LAND. It's like the US allowing The Midwestern states to form their own country. ILLEGAL Albanian immigrants were rebelling against the sovereign Serbian government. The Serbs tried expelling the ILLEGAL immigrants only to get bombed by NATO. There was NOT the bloodshed the American media made it out to be.

2. Israel voted against the measure because it would show that terrorism works. If they had voted for a Pal state here's what the terrorists would have seen. "Suicide bombing three days ago, we get a Pal state....hmmm terrorism works." The Pals will not get a state until the terrorism stops. Israel is one small country surrounded by millions who would commit genocide against them if the US wasn't backing Israel up.

SM, before you make yourself look stupid, next time learn about what you are talking about.

**MrWhereItsAt** · May 13, 2002, 09:22

Yes Sava, but they are defying all who support them as well! Courageous, maybe, but in this case they need the support and it is not good to be seen more and more as uncooperative and hostile to your allies. It beggars belief, some political parties' decisions.

**Saint Marcus** · May 13, 2002, 09:34

SM, before you make yourself look stupid, next time learn about what you are talking about.

After reading your defence of Serbia's policies in Kosovo, I think this comment should be taken with a grain of salt.

**Kropotkin** · May 13, 2002, 10:15

Yepp, the illegal albanian immigrants. Just like the jews in the land of Palestine then...

**Sprayber** · May 13, 2002, 10:41

Re: Israeli governement won't allow the creation of a Palestinian state.

Originally posted by Saint Marcus The Israeli governement won't allow the creation of a Palestinian state.

Anyone who still thinks the Israeli's are anything other than oppressors is really living in a different world. I really don't think there is any difference anymore between the Serbs during the Kosovo war, and Israel today. The Serbs also refused a creation of a seperate autonomous Kosovo, same as with Israel and Palestine today. Also, the Serbs used military force to stop "terrorists" in that territory, like Israel is doing. Both also commited warcrimes. The only difference are the American double standards.

The entire world, including the USA, is in favor of a seperate Palestinian state. Only Israel isn't.

**** Israel.

Shouldn't this say the Likhud party declares itself against a pal state? Come on Marcus, show some kind of independent thought.

**Ecthy** · May 13, 2002, 10:44

Don't be silly, Marcus... even the thread title is a farce, let alone your opening post

I'd be surprised if only a few of our local ones are against a Pal state, and they're a part of ISrael, too.

We haven't had such plain troll generalizations in a long time, though. The last big debating of the true meaning of generalizations must have been more than 2 years ago... people were halfway reasonable for some time. Well, halfway

**Saint Marcus** · May 13, 2002, 10:46

Shouldn't this say the Likhud party declares itself against a pal state? Come on Marcus, show some kind of independent thought.

It won't stop here.

**ranskaldan** · May 13, 2002, 10:50

Originally posted by Sava
SM, you are such an idiot.

1. The Serbs didn't allow the creation of a Kosovo state because Kosovo is SERBIAN LAND. It's like the US allowing The Midwestern states to form their own country. ILLEGAL Albanian immigrants were rebelling against the sovereign Serbian government. The Serbs tried expelling the ILLEGAL immigrants only to get bombed by NATO. There was NOT the bloodshed the American media made it out to be.

So, the 90% Albanians in Kosovo are all illegal immigrants, right?
Also, explain why, with about a 10% Serb population, is Kosovo permanent, immutable, forever, Serbian land.

2. Israel voted against the measure because it would show that terrorism works. If they had voted for a Pal state here's what the terrorists would have seen. "Suicide bombing three days ago, we get a Pal state....hmmm terrorism works." The Pals will not get a state until the terrorism stops. Israel is one small country surrounded by millions who would commit genocide against them if the US wasn't backing Israel up.

Therefore, denying them a Pal state would be sending them the message that the Pals should all lie down and act like docile sheep?

**Ecthy** · May 13, 2002, 10:58

Originally posted by ranskaldan
So, the 90% Albanians in Kosovo are all illegal immigrants, right?
Also, explain why, with about a 10% Serb population, is Kosovo permanent, immutable, forever, Serbian land.

Because it it theirs, and in the government's hand to decide what has to happen to that land. And in fact, the Albanians were sort of terrorists in the beginningf, but the Serbs made the mistake to start a war against the civilians down there. It's like Israel attacking the west bank, I do see some parallels there.

Besides, Kosovo was an autonome region, but since the guys in Belgrade were pretty much racists and tyrants and whatnot that status lost more and more relevance, which was also the reason for the rebellion. Think Chechnya, or Dagestan. As long as they're well off, they don't mind being ruled by another peoples. Or think Alsace, where you can hardly claim there's a French majority. The peole just don't care, and issues like strong minorities (that become actual majorities) don't even get discussed until there's a military conflict. So had the Serbs stayed sort of real in their campaign against the rebels, there wouldn't have been any reason to discuss the status of Kosovo. Nowadays it's still a part of Serbia, BTW, and will stay so for a long long time.

**Sprayber** · May 13, 2002, 11:00

Originally posted by Saint Marcus

It won't stop here.

Tell us your theories on where it will end Marcus. And while your at it, explain why most of the Pals(or most of the Arab world for that matter) still doesn't recognize Israel. But I guess you will say that is different.

Announcement

Israeli governement won't allow the creation of a Palestinian state.

Israeli governement won't allow the creation of a Palestinian state.

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment