Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "thanks" here!

[Fidel]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Well culture from such a big county cannot die but it certainly shrunk its output a lot since art had to comply with the regime, and certaily many would be artists died either trying to run away and caught, or for being politically 'wrong'.

the same was true for tzarist russia. all major poets were dissidents. puskin was a dekabrist, etc. etc. dostoyevsky got almost shot by a firing squad....

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by LaRusso
here comes a cowboy with his laso. go away. write about new york and threaten OBL.

Leads off with a racial sterotype.
Sorry, but Yankees don't use lassos, old boy.
Fraid I'll write about what I like, whether you care for it or not.

we lived under communism. i lived for 18 years, roman for whopping 7. you did not. you live in the greatest country ever, populated by the bravest people ever. leave us to roll in our stinky european mud, poor and uneducated like we are...

Well, at least you are admitting your bias and your ignorence, a good start.

So, what nation was that? The former Yugoslavia? (that your from)
Want to know where your coming from, since your always so even minded when it comes to these things.
Never see you post accusations, attacks, pettiness, unfounded rumors, anything like that.

So tell us what it was like living under a totalitarian regieme? (No communist state has ever been anything else, so don't try that tact).

I'm willing to listen, go ahead.

[Roland]

I guess all the commie nostalgia urged Chris to oversteer on the opposite side. IMO it is not a particularly useful concept...

THERE! I SAID "concept"!

I have no problem with a differentiated view of the communist (or "communist", if you prefer) regimes. And for me, greenspan and his cronies are raving socialist lunatics...

For the thread, funny... I'd rather congratulate the eastern europeans here for freeing themselves from communist oppression.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by LaRusso


except that nazis made human soap. am i correct?

Hopefully (according to you, at least) they'll be made out of Lithuanians, as expressed in the following remarks to Saras:

"It was rather stupid of Russians to liberate you. They should have stopped on their frontier and watch Nazis turn you into a soap"

How did you avoid banning for this???? MtG? Ming?

[Saras]

Originally posted by LaRusso


okay. russians were arguably a capitalist society before revolution. literacy was EXTREMELY low.

they starved under capitalism too.

can you name any modern russian writer? how about naming some that wrote DURING stalin era: bulgakov, fadeyev, solohov,
pasternak, simonov, ilyf & petrov etc. shostakovich also conducted and composed during stalin. russian culture did NOT die during stalin reign.

all that is left after hitler is 'lili marlen'. even that is a ww1 song.

Well, Stalin lover, how did the life of Bulgakov, Pasternak & Ilf & Petrov look like, huh? How about Tsvetayeva? Akhmatova?

"Like many Russian intellectuals of his time, Boris Pasternak lived a life of fear and insecurity. As a poet in post-revolutionary Soviet Russia, he had to walk a very delicate line between obeying the dictates of the all-encompassing State and those of his own artistic conscience. Pasternak, and the other artists of the day, did their best to make art serve life as they saw it in a world where art was to exist only to serve the Revolution. They published their articles, compositions, symphonies and poems dreading that even a hint of disloyalty to the Revolution in their work might bring about the feared knock at the door in the middle of the night heralding arrest or worse. Dmitri Shostakovich, the famous composer, slept fitfully every night with a "prison suitcase" packed and ready. "Of course I am prepared for anything. Why should it happen to everyone else and not to me?" wrote Pasternak in one letter."

"I know the truth - give up all other truths!"
by Marina Tsvetayeva

I know the truth - give up all other truths!
No need for people anywhere on earth to struggle.
Look - it is evening, look, it is nearly night:
what do you speak of, poets, lovers, generals?

The wind is level now, the earth is wet with dew,
the storm of stars in the sky will turn to quiet.
And soon all of us will sleep under the earth, we
who never let each other sleep above it.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

For the thread, funny... I'd rather congratulate the eastern europeans here for freeing themselves from communist oppression.

yes but if thre was no US based opposition you would be congratulationg yourself now. Not that mighty Austria could not resist alone to the poor USSR.

Sometimes we can be glad that there is choice in the world and thank to the ones who made it available. It is fair to do thank somebody once in a while, for a change from US bashing threads (not that there is totally no reason for that) just to acknowledge that nobody is perfect *sigh*



however thank you for congratulating us

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Roland
I guess all the commie nostalgia urged Chris to oversteer on the opposite side. IMO it is not a particularly useful concept...

Ah, Roland, I'm where I always am, in the center.
Sometime I must oppose the right, other times the left, for it is extremists that are the problem with the world.

I have no problem with a differentiated view of the communist (or "communist", if you prefer) regimes. And for me, greenspan and his cronies are raving socialist lunatics...

Can't argue with that, but I did say I know little of economics.

For the thread, funny... I'd rather congratulate the eastern europeans here for freeing themselves from communist oppression.

I'll agree here, it's like an old sitcom, aging gueststars shoot there catch phrases, same as always, and the same people applaud.
The Eastern Euros sure did free themselves, with just a little help from their friends.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Saras


Well, Stalin lover, how did the life of Bulgakov, Pasternak & Ilf & Petrov look like, huh? How about Tsvetayeva? Akhmatova?

"Like many Russian intellectuals of his time, Boris Pasternak lived a life of fear and insecurity. As a poet in post-revolutionary Soviet Russia, he had to walk a very delicate line between obeying the dictates of the all-encompassing State and those of his own artistic conscience. Pasternak, and the other artists of the day, did their best to make art serve life as they saw it in a world where art was to exist only to serve the Revolution. They published their articles, compositions, symphonies and poems dreading that even a hint of disloyalty to the Revolution in their work might bring about the feared knock at the door in the middle of the night heralding arrest or worse. Dmitri Shostakovich, the famous composer, slept fitfully every night with a "prison suitcase" packed and ready. "Of course I am prepared for anything. Why should it happen to everyone else and not to me?" wrote Pasternak in one letter."

Well Hitler lover, stop answering to something I did not say. If you like Nazis so much, join one of their movements. Just please do not tell me that they are the same thing as stalinism.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Leads off with a racial sterotype.
Sorry, but Yankees don't use lassos, old boy.
Fraid I'll write about what I like, whether you care for it or not.


Well, at least you are admitting your bias and your ignorence, a good start.

So, what nation was that? The former Yugoslavia? (that your from)
Want to know where your coming from, since your always so even minded when it comes to these things.
Never see you post accusations, attacks, pettiness, unfounded rumors, anything like that.

So tell us what it was like living under a totalitarian regieme? (No communist state has ever been anything else, so don't try that tact).

I'm willing to listen, go ahead.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

they are surely not the same, but the output is certainly very similar.

Saying that stalinism is horrible, and that nacizm is even worse, does not make him Hitler lover does it?

[Fidel]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
they are surely not the same, but the output is certainly very similar.

Saying that stalinism is horrible, and that nacizm is even worse, does not make him Hitler lover does it?

if only he would say that. we already had an argument and he sees no difference. that is mainly because baltic people were not on hitler's ****list in which case, perhaps, it is no biggie. if you are a slav or a jew or a gypsie, it is a hell of a difference. well, you know it as well as i do.

the gradation you outlined is fine by me.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by LaRusso

Boy, can't argue with that!

So, from this point, will you just drop in a when asked your postion on matters, and your backround?

I guess it would simplfy matters greatly.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Boy, can't argue with that!

So, from this point, will you just drop in a when asked your postion on matters, and your backround?

I guess it would simplfy matters greatly.

chris
i am 30
18 yrs under communism
several years in anarchy
doctoral degree in law (american), masters also american
yugoslav communism was OK. we lived decent lives. anyone would trade their shallow 'freedom' for what we had back then. it was not perfect but it was more than bearable. repression was relatively light and directed to party members.

i hope One Foot is approx my generation to attest to this.

Now, I hope, I will be spared of your pointless interrogation. You live in the greatest system there ever was. Thank you for liberating us and leading us into the civilized world. We were nothing but Mongol hordes before. May God bless America, especially its Army, Navy and Air Force. Janitors, too (it is not easy cleaning after your crap, man

[Ubik]

LaRusso

Since you have an american education (in USA?) I would expect you not to fall into the trap of discussing anything "socialist" or "communist" with right-wing americans.

I have many american friends and most of them are of that kind - is there any other?

So, when I really want to get pissed off, I try to talk politics with them. It's really a hit, buddy... very funny

Actually, how can you talk about politics with people believing Blair is a radical commie and Clinton a socialist????

...and to a sidenote, I got the kicks trying to explaing to some of my US pals the term "anarchist"... they all called me "a bloodycommiebastard" after I told them what makes me an anarchist

[DanS]

Ubik: following your convention, at least 95% of Americans are right wing.

Chris: are you going to take this sitting down? Ubik's calling you right wing!