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  • #91
    All stats from:

    Complete source for baseball history including complete major league player, team, and league stats, awards, records, leaders, rookies and scores.


    cabrera played all 162 games


    Wrong. He played in 161 in 2004. Perhaps a game fell by the wayside during the trade.

    cabrera had 11 RBIs in the postseason


    Correct. Renteria had 7, which isn't bad at all, especially in the WS, no one in front of him got on base (he did hit .333 in that series).

    cabrera batted over .300 with the sox


    Wrong! He batted .294 with a .320 OBP with Boston. And that was in a Batter's Park (Park Factors - 106/105). Renteria hit .284 but with a .327 OBP in a Pitcher's Park (Park Factors - 97/97)

    cabrera turned more double plays


    Actually both had 92 DPs last year. If you take Cabrera's DP numbers in Boston and extrapolate them over a 162 game schedule ([23 DP/57 Games] * 162 Games) you get 65.3 Double Plays. MUCH worse.

    cabrera had a higher FP


    Wrong! Renteria had a .983 Fielding %, Cabrera had a .966 Fielding % in Boston and a year long FP of .978.

    Ie, he played MUCH better defense in Montreal than in Boston.

    cabrera had higher OBP after park adjustment


    Renteria had .007 higher OBP playing in a pitchers park, while Cabrera was in a hitters park.

    cabrera had higher SLUG after park adjustment.


    Correct! But only when Cabrera was in Boston.

    no one knew how good cabrera was until he came to the sox.


    Cabrera may have had a 97 OPS+ with Boston last year, but with Montreal last year he had a 68 OPS+. The year before he had a 95 OBP+ and the year before 84 OPS+. Hardly All-Star totals.

    Last year Renteria had an off year with an OPS+ of only 90. BUT in 2003, he had an OPS+ of 131 and in 2002, an OPS+ of 116.

    And in WinShares (from www.hardballtimes.com), Renteria had 17 last year. Cabrera had 5 in Boston for 57 games. Extrapolating out to 162 games, that's a total of 14 for Cabrera's best streach compared to Renteria's off year.

    Face it. Renteria is a better player.

    PWNED
    Last edited by Imran Siddiqui; December 15, 2004, 21:10.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

    Comment


    • #92


      You and your so called 'evidence'. Stop using stats and facts. It's not fair to LoA.

      "Luck's last match struck in the pouring down wind." - Chris Cornell, "Mindriot"

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      • #93
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by BustaMike
          Stop using stats and facts. It's not fair to LoA.
          But he's right... Renteria is the better player. I'd take him any time over Cabrera

          Just watching them through the season, it was obvious... and the facts and stats just prove it
          Keep on Civin'
          RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

          Comment


          • #95
            Re the Nationals -- If they want to move them to Las Vegas, there's a problem. Vegas does not have anything remotely approaching a ML ballpark. They'd have to build one almost overnight. (Of course, Vegas is probably the one town where that could happen.)

            More likely scenario is a year in RFK with the DC govt wising up and getting on board. If they don't, it triggers MLB's ability to contract -- 2 teams could be disappeared in 2006, with the MLBPA having no say in the matter.
            Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
            RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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            • #96
              Cabrera is a good player, by the way. But one gets the impression that if the Boston Red Sox employed Rey Ordonez as their SS, LoA would claim he's a great hitter, and clearly a superior player to [insert any other SS here].

              -Arrian
              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

              Comment


              • #97
                Yep, that's the funny part. I can understand saying you'd rather have Cabrera because he'd cost less (not by much, he's asking $7 Mil a year) or because of his age (but Renteria is a year younger), but saying he's better outright? What?
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #98
                  stats are only 1/10 of the equation. the other nine parts are what i say.

                  still bitter imran, that im right on college football?
                  "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    You're wrong on college football and you're wrong on baseball. I wonder if you've ever been right on anything?
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • Vegas has a AAA stadium they could use until they had a proper one built.
                      http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • Why can't the Nationals just play at RFK? Seriously. I know it's old (sorta) and I know it's not a baseball-only stadium. SO ****ING WHAT!?

                        By the way, in general I'm totally on the side of the city. Teams should *not* get public funding for their stadiums.

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment


                        • By the way, in general I'm totally on the side of the city. Teams should *not* get public funding for their stadiums.


                          Then they have to right to go somewhere else.

                          People buy teams. They shouldn't have to buy the package of a stadium in order to own a team.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                          Comment


                          • I think it has more to do with breaking the agreement that they had with the MLB than anything. MLB doesn't take kindly to such things.
                            http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • Well that doesn't help . I'm sure that is the main reason that Selig and co are pissed. If the council doesn't hold another vote, the Washington Nationals are dead. They've stopped all operations already.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • MLB telling the Nationals to stop all promotional activities is the "shot across the bow" for Washington DC. The message has been sent... approve what you said you would, or you lose. It's that simple.
                                Keep on Civin'
                                RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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