The Offseason Baseball Thread

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, the Front Office was all numbers oriented when Clemens and Eckersley left . Oh man, tell us another whopper!

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Bonds doesn't have any heart? Are you insane? There is not guy out there who works as hard. He's one of those people out at batting practice at insane hours.

thats not heart, thats work ethic.

Crashed and burned? Not their hitting, which remained strong. Oakland lost out because their pitching hit 5+ ERA. And they still had 91 wins. What crashing and burning?

on sept 1 when youre ahead of the next team by 5 - 7 games, and you lose, thats crash and burning. no team chemistry, couldnt come bback when they started to slide, even as you said, OBP teams supposedly have more heart. these guys showed none.

Which is why the year before they were the #1 team when April ended? Sorry, they played good before Nomar and after Nomar. Nothing to do with Cabrera.

how many rings did the sox get with nomar? ok thanks. thats all i wanted to know.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

if the mets wanna sign varitek for five years 55 million with a no trade clause, do it. if they wanna sign him for 4 years 44 million with a no trade clause, do it. sox should sign him for 4 years 36/40 million, with a clause that says if to be traded, sox need to pay him $100,000,000. thats the same as a no trade clause, just not in words. and besides in two years he'll be a 10/5 guy anyways, so no problem.

[Imran Siddiqui]

thats not heart, thats work ethic.

Work ethic leads to heart. What do you think heart is?

on sept 1 when youre ahead of the next team by 5 - 7 games, and you lose, thats crash and burning.

Actually it was more like 2 games. That isn't crashing and burning, it's just the way the season works.

no team chemistry, couldnt come bback when they started to slide, even as you said, OBP teams supposedly have more heart. these guys showed none.

No heart or team chemistry on the A's. How do you think they average 95 wins over the last 6 years while averaging in the bottom 5 in payroll? That's heart and chemistry and smart GMing .

They weren't even supposed to be above 90 wins with their small payroll, losing their key batter (Tejada) not long after losing their key batter (Giambi). With their only offensive star still on the team (Chavez) injured for 2 months in the middle of the year.

They've overachieved like no one has for 6 years and they have no heart? They lost their star batter in the offseason and then lost their best current batter to injury for 2 months and STILL finished with 90+ wins.

how many rings did the sox get with nomar?

Thanks for making my point for me .

[Arrian]

and the angels, yankees, and cards didnt have as much heart and chemistry. remember when you were up 3- 0 in the ALCS? can a computer put together a team that will come back from that deficit, who have the heart and chemistry to do it? i dont think so.

The 2004 Boston Red Sox were a superior team to the 2004 New York Yankees - and that was widely known GOING INTO THAT SERIES! The surprise wasn't really the Sox winning (historically surprising, but not if you're a stats guy!), but that they were ever down 0-3! In the end the best stats team won!

The Angels were really hurt by injuries and also the suspension to their dickwad outfielder (name escapes me) who was nonetheless one of their better players. And they did attempt an epic comeback (Vlad's grand slam), but I guess that shows no heart at all.

The Cards... hell, aside from their known weakness: lack of dominant starting pitching, I'm not really sure what happened there. But some odd things can happen in 4 games.

...

There *is* something to the issue of Boston players feeling bitter when they leave. Both Duquette and now to a degree Epstein have done some things to alienate players. That's something to work on.

Having said that, Pedro's a ****in' diva, man! Ultimately, he wanted "respect" he doesn't warrant. He's gotten a ****load of respect from that organization over the years, and now they're a bit wary of his long-term health so he feels betrayed or something? You gotta be kiddin' me.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

LoA: Oh, AND you keep hyping Youklis. Who do you think is the James/Beane/Moneyball prototype? The guy walks a ton and is what Bill James is about. If he suceeds, so does the statistical analysis you like to decry.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Yeah, the Front Office was all numbers oriented when Clemens and Eckersley left . Oh man, tell us another whopper!

it wasnt as much, but we have the same problems then as now. a FO who treats athletes like pieces of a machine instead of people.

millar is also moaning now demanding that the other guy (mintkeivaxnmkz) get traded cuz he has proven himself.

[Arrian]

Youklis, by the way, may be a good example of an over-hyped stat guy. He's decent, but the "Greek God of Walks" from Moneyball is NOT going to be a star player in MLB. He has his limitations.

What most people don't seem to understand is that the "Moneyball" style of GMing that Billy Beane represents is all about finding a type of player that is generally undervalued by other GMs. It's not about finding the "best" player. It's about finding the most cost-effective way to put together a winning team. If a certain type of player is undervalued, then you can get him relatively cheap, and parlay that into additional payroll flexibility. This is how the As, with their tiny payroll, compete every year.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

There *is* something to the issue of Boston players feeling bitter when they leave. Both Duquette and now to a degree Epstein have done some things to alienate players. That's something to work on.

Having said that, Pedro's a ****in' diva, man! Ultimately, he wanted "respect" he doesn't warrant. He's gotten a ****load of respect from that organization over the years, and now they're a bit wary of his long-term health so he feels betrayed or something? You gotta be kiddin' me.

But with Pedro that was ridiculous. He didn't want to be in "Schilling's shadow"!! What is Theo to do? Trade Schilling for Pedro's sake?

[Arrian]

millar is also moaning now demanding that the other guy (mintkeivaxnmkz) get traded cuz he has proven himself.

Kevin Millar!

That's rich. I can understand Pedro getting the ego he has - he was for a time the most dominant, electric starting pitching in MLB. He *has* earned some respect.

But Kevin Millar? Bwaaahahahaha!

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, and by the way:

Pedro didn't want to be "in Shilling's shadow"

Millar wants Man-Cave-Itch traded.

How ABOUT that team chemistry, fellas! I'm feelin' the love!

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Youklis, by the way, may be a good example of an over-hyped stat guy. He's decent, but the "Greek God of Walks" from Moneyball is NOT going to be a star player in MLB. He has his limitations.

It depends what you mean by 'star player' . His OBP will make him a fixture in Boston's lineup for years. He's got some decent pop (by no means a slugger) as well. I'd see him as a John Olerud / Will Clark type of player. Star, but not superstar, but very valuable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
Oh, and by the way:

Pedro didn't want to be "in Shilling's shadow"

Millar wants Man-Cave-Itch traded.

How ABOUT that team chemistry, fellas! I'm feelin' the love!

-Arrian

How did the ego get so big on players on that team? Millar getting a big head is just ridiculous. I don't know where he gets off. Maybe if he played better defense, Mienky wouldn't have had to be brought in.

[Arrian]

Useful? Sure. And that's what I'm saying (btw, we seem to have different definitions of "star").

But media hype being what it is... it's been blown out of proportion.

Similarly, when the media suddenly "discovered" that Carlos Beltran was a damn good CF... BOOM, he's like OMG TEH BEST PLAYER EVA!!!

He's good. Very good. But he's not THAT good. Same sort of situation with Youklis. It happens all the time. It just doesn't often happen with a moneyball-type highOBP player (unless they also hit a bundle of HRs or do some other more conventional cool thing).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

How did the ego get so big on players on that team? Millar getting a big head is just ridiculous. I don't know where he gets off. Maybe if he played better defense, Mienky wouldn't have had to be brought in.

Absolutely agreed. Millar is a streaky hitter who mashes lefties (IIRC), but is nearly useless in the field. He's not NEARLY a good enough hitter to be the DH, and besides, Ortiz has that locked up. So where does he play? RF if Nixon's hurt, but if not, Nixon's better. 1b, unless somebody actually qualified for the position can (Man-Cave-Itch isn't exactly a slugger, but his defense is SO much better, and he's a lefty...). This makes Millar a 4th outfielder/bench player. Which is EXACTLY what he should be.

Winning that WS up in Boston is what did it, though, Imran. These guys are like Gods right now. Which is kinda cool, good for them & Boston, but the F.O. has a mess on its hands.

-Arrian