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  • Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
    You lost.
    Please explain how "we" lost.
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • Originally posted by Ned


      A generic statemtent that is fair. It would be unfair to say, however, that people who oppose democracy are freedom fighters, or that people who rule by terror are mere rebels, a term that can apply to good guys and bad guys equally.

      We made a mistake in Vietnam? What was that mistake?
      Being there.
      What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
      What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensation

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Drachasor
        I wager more civilians will die than insurgents by at least a factor of two.
        Care to set the terms?
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

        Comment


        • The bigger tragedy to all was not being there when we needed to honor the peace treaty accord to provide security to the SV circa 1975.
          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ned


            Please explain how "we" lost.
            How about the Fall of Hanoi and the commie takeovers of SVN, Cambodia and Laos?
            Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

            It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
            The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

            Comment


            • Originally posted by problem_child


              People who oppose what some guy calls 'democracy' aren't necessarily terrorists. Just because someone says they intend to bring 'democracy', don't mean they want people to elect the government the majority of said people want.

              "You can have any car you want as long as it's black"

              -Henry Ford

              If someone says you can have any democracy you want as long as it's controlled by those guys over the sea, then 'democracy' in that sense is just a slogan. Besides, there's evidence to argue that USUK are specifically trying to prevent certain politically representative groups in Iraq from partaking in any election or democratic prosses by making them 'Outlaws', fit only for extermination, and thuroughly out of the political process. Rinsing the deck so to speak. It's easy, back em into a corner, call em fanatics, terrorists, insurgents, Saddamists whatever. Say they're controlled by Iran, or Al Qaeda. Then you don't have to oppose em in an election.
              I didn't say that people who oppose democracy are terrorists. I say they are not freedom fighters. If they fight fairly and do not commit terrorists acts, but are fighting for some sort of right wing totalitarian rule (as the Islamo-fascists are) then I would call them fascists.


              I think what Hitchens is trying to say is that just because these fascists are fighting Bush does not excuse the left for idolizing them. They after all, are fascists, some of who seek to impose radical Islam as a form of government.
              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

              Comment


              • Originally posted by germanos
                The BBC has excelent links to various other news agencies. I find them very usefull.

                From these combined sources, indeed a picture emerges of heavy fighting in various cities. Airstrikes on Mosul isn't having a picknick, and it does seem heavy fighting in parts of Baghdad does take place.

                Falluja appears to be a hellhole, not only for the civilians, but for the US/Iraqi forces as well.
                Looks like Tet II. If so, the outcome may be the same as Tet I, a decisive victory by the good guys.
                http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Pax
                  Being there.
                  PAX, agreed. Hindsight is a very good way of managing one's affairs. I would never have sent in ground troops in the manner Johnson did. If we were going to fight a war, we fight it to win. That required a declaration of war on NV.
                  http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
                    The bigger tragedy to all was not being there when we needed to honor the peace treaty accord to provide security to the SV circa 1975.
                    Agreed in spades. 1) We had a Democrat controlled Congress determined to see SV lose the war; and 2) we had mentally retarded president who had no balls.
                    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DinoDoc
                      Care to set the terms?
                      Sure, the relevent time from is November 1st to the end of hostilities in Falluja--this is when the Bush-team declares major/significant hostilities are over in Falluja (e.g. they declare victory or Bush makes an "aircraft-carrier"-like statement)--, or 2 months time, whichever you prefer.

                      If during that period, the number of civilian deaths is not at least twice the number of insurgent deaths (both estimated, of course), then I will equip an avatar of your choice. If I am right in the number of civilian deaths is twice the insurgent deaths or more, then you will have the avatar of my choice.

                      Deal?

                      -Drachasor
                      "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

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                      • You have to pick a reasonably respected source for the info or no deal.
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                        Comment


                        • May I suggest www.iraqwar.ru ?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Last Conformist

                            How about the Fall of Hanoi and the commie takeovers of SVN, Cambodia and Laos?
                            1) Hanoi -- French lost that
                            2) SVN -- We were out of the war when that happened
                            3) Cambodia and Laos could not be against communist ground power with airpower alone.

                            So again, how did we lose the Vietnam War?
                            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Serb
                              May I suggest www.iraqwar.ru ?
                              I can't seem to access that site.

                              How about CNN or the BBC, Dino?

                              -Drachasor
                              "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                              Comment


                              • What? Somebody killed this great source of information? Bastards.

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