Falluja operation underway

[Ned]

Originally posted by Pax
Ned,
I just want you to understand that it's important for the U.S. to be successful in Iraq. One of the first ways we can do that is to assess and evaluate the enemy fairly.
We have to know his goals in order to win. A blanket assessment that insurgents are "terrorists" or "blood-maddened thugs" or "rats" as I've heard them referred to makes us weaker. It makes us underestimate his abilities and his support. That was also a mistake made in vietnam.

A generic statemtent that is fair. It would be unfair to say, however, that people who oppose democracy are freedom fighters, or that people who rule by terror are mere rebels, a term that can apply to good guys and bad guys equally.

We made a mistake in Vietnam? What was that mistake?

[Alexander's Horse]

You lost.

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Ned


A generic statemtent that is fair. It would be unfair to say, however, that people who oppose democracy are freedom fighters, or that people who rule by terror are mere rebels, a term that can apply to good guys and bad guys equally.

We made a mistake in Vietnam? What was that mistake?

People who oppose what some guy calls 'democracy' aren't necessarily terrorists. Just because someone says they intend to bring 'democracy', don't mean they want people to elect the government the majority of said people want.

"You can have any car you want as long as it's black"

-Henry Ford

If someone says you can have any democracy you want as long as it's controlled by those guys over the sea, then 'democracy' in that sense is just a slogan. Besides, there's evidence to argue that USUK are specifically trying to prevent certain politically representative groups in Iraq from partaking in any election or democratic prosses by making them 'Outlaws', fit only for extermination, and thuroughly out of the political process. Rinsing the deck so to speak. It's easy, back em into a corner, call em fanatics, terrorists, insurgents, Saddamists whatever. Say they're controlled by Iran, or Al Qaeda. Then you don't have to oppose em in an election.

[Chemical Ollie]

Some Swedish reporters depict Falluja as a "Grozny II"

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The real story of Falluja is the sophisticated tactics the insurgents are using - defensive positions modelled on Soviet urban warfare doctrine according to US officers - popping up undetected behind the frontline screen to attack the US HQ itself - withdrawing their main force before the battle - launching attacks in other cities whilst die hards take the brunt of the assault in Fallujah - luring the coalition forces into ambushes - forcing the coalition to attack mosques - melting back into the civilian and refugee population when the heat gets too much. They are doing well.

Where are you getting this info?

We haven't heard anything about it. Of course, because it gets screened from the major networks.

Would be nice to get an outside source to read.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Some Swedish reporters depict Falluja as a "Grozny II"

Surely, Grozny II must apply to the second Russian assault on the place?

[Kropotkin]

To think that Grozny gives such negative associations. Poor Ivan Grozny, what did he do to deserve that kind of bad rep?





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Ops, according to swedish radio, battles have taken place in serveral locations in Bagdad. Nån har skitit i det blå skåpet!

[Sikander]

Wow a whack-job trifecta! Mobious, Tripledoc and Problem Child all on the same page, quoting from the Guardian and giving each other thumbs up.

[Kropotkin]

And now you too!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
And now you too!

What, I don't get a Guardian quote?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


Where are you getting this info?

We haven't heard anything about it. Of course, because it gets screened from the major networks.

Would be nice to get an outside source to read.

I think your media self censors.

[Drake Tungsten]

I thought the Christian Science Monitor was part of our media...

[Alexander's Horse]

That's where I get all my information...

[Kropotkin]

As I said earlier, swedish radio claimed that there's fighting going on in Bagdad and that they would get back as soon as the knew more. Well, they haven't. And it doesn't seem like any other of the sources I usually read says anything about it either. Looks like news media, do have the same problem as I have with emails; it's to damn easy to press the 'send'-button.

No fighting in Bagdad then.

or perhaps there's a cover up!

[germanos]

The BBC has excelent links to various other news agencies. I find them very usefull.

From these combined sources, indeed a picture emerges of heavy fighting in various cities. Airstrikes on Mosul isn't having a picknick, and it does seem heavy fighting in parts of Baghdad does take place.

Falluja appears to be a hellhole, not only for the civilians, but for the US/Iraqi forces as well.