Falluja operation underway

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Kropotkin

Are you not a bit dissappointed that there's no 'holding up hand against the other persons face'-smiley?

not really, I'd dismissed it as 'irrelevancy chaff', was waiting for someone with something to say about the article. But fair enough, you don't like long articles quoted; me niether. One sometimes just hits 'quote' and makes their comment. I let it pass when others do the long-quote-thing, so I can forgive myself too.

But I seriously agree with what the guy who wrote the article is saying. I dunno about how united Iraqis are in their culture, but I also got the strong immpression the whole 'ethnic/religious divisions' thing was being played up, and the whole 'We Want Real Democracy For Iraq' message doesn't tally withh current and previous actions of USUK in Iraq or most other places in the 3rd world.

That much is obvious to anyone not committed to assumptions of the morality of USUK leadership.

[problem_child]

In addition, I'd heard that US troops had fired on women and children in Falluja killing many of them, and that this is what lead to the mercs getting strung-up, which in turn led to the vengeance-attack on Falluja by US Marines a few months ago, leading in turn to this current 'assualt on the terrorists'

[Tripledoc]

Here is a blogger who claims that he can see that the Battle of Falluja is part of a wider offensive. As far as I understand he claims that Falluja is simply the nexus of two seperate supply routes going in from Syria and Iran. The implications of that is of course a pipedream to escalate and spread the war. Of course he totally ignores that maybe supply caches have been stored all over Iraq before the war. And even if true attacking the end of the supply route, while not interdicting it up further instead, kind of points to the fact that it can't possibly be true.

http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/11/river-war-fallujah-battle-which-is.html

[Alexander's Horse]

The real story of Falluja is the sophisticated tactics the insurgents are using - defensive positions modelled on Soviet urban warfare doctrine according to US officers - popping up undetected behind the frontline screen to attack the US HQ itself - withdrawing their main force before the battle - launching attacks in other cities whilst die hards take the brunt of the assault in Fallujah - luring the coalition forces into ambushes - forcing the coalition to attack mosques - melting back into the civilian and refugee population when the heat gets too much. They are doing well.

[problem_child]

The real story of Falluja is not in battle-field technicalities, it's in the civilians that are dying right now under the onslaught of an illegal occupation, whose actions have totally militarised the country and let loose the dogs of war the US military is so happy to blow towns up chasing after.

Whole things a game to keep Iraq controlled. Martial-Law is exactly the strategy.

[Alexander's Horse]

and that will continue because the battle shows the insurgents are resilient and smart.

[problem_child]

sigh. Okay then.

Apparently the Americans killed all the dumb ones already, so only the smart ones are left.

[Last Conformist]

Natural selection

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by problem_child
sigh. Okay then.

Apparently the Americans killed all the dumb ones already, so only the smart ones are left.

No not quite - what I see is fanatics, of which there seems to be an endless supply, being pushed out as cannon fodder whilst a sophisticated military trained hardcore directs the battle and plans precision attacks by well drilled cadre.

In my opinion the attack on the coalition battlefield HQ was an ominous sign of expert tactical command and control behind the obvious nutjobs facing the advance. You can tell the latter aren't well trained because they don't seem to change fire position after engaging and thus eventually get taken out. But that's their job - tie up the troops, distract them, bog down the advance, whilst the better quality insurgents manoeuvre.

I'm only going off what I read and see on the TV - you do better to turn the sound down on the latter and not listen to the cliched reports.

[problem_child]

Ya. Of course, some of em are probably just people that live there trying to survive. If a foreign army invades your hometown, starts killing people, women and children included, maybe you'd take up arms, defend your home, your neigbourhood. Americans make a big thing about their right to bear arms and defend themselves should the king of England ever get bolshy with em again, but if an Iraqi does it it's all like "How Dare They! Ignorant Savages! Terrorists!! Terrorists Against Freedom!!!! Nutjobs!!!! Fanatics!!!!"

And yet most Fallujans are stuck in the city coz they can't leave. Men 15-50 or whatever it is can't go anywhere, if you're a man in Falluja that makes you a terrorist-fighter. Most of the Fallujans still in there just don't have anywhere else to go or can't move. All of them are being classified as refuseniks-to-leave or Insurgents.

The fact that not a single shot was fired at American troops in Falluja before those school kids were massacred tells me that if there are any fanatics in Falluja, they are in a minority, and that if there are terrorists in Falluja, they using M16s and dressed in kevlar.

Your point about opposer-tactics is interesting, but I just find the immorality of this unessesary assault more.... makes me have things I wanna say. I mean, I like Tactical and Strategic computer games and watch the Discovery channel as much as any armchair-General, but in this case that kind of thing is not what I'm talking about anyway.

[problem_child]

Some accounts from the civilians

[Sava]

now that is terrible

[MOBIUS]

Talk about overkill...

"U.S. marines called in two airstrikes on the pair of dingy three-story buildings squatting along Highway 10, dropping quarter-ton bombs each time. They fired 35 or so 155-millimeter artillery shells, 10 shots from the muzzles of Abrams tanks and perhaps 30,000 rounds from their automatic rifles. The building was a smoking ruin.

But the sniper kept shooting."



Story

[MOBIUS]

Saw a US war crime on the TV today...

One of the BBC reporters I think, embedded with a US unit filmed them wound an insurgent. The soldiers discussed what to do with the wounded man and one of them walked up and shot him dead behind the wall.

USA! USA! USA!

[Ted Striker]

Did you get off on that MOBIUS?