Tweet
The point is to discredit the gov't., and increase popular pressure against it.
-
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon -
That is reasoning is as deluded as the action.The point is to discredit the gov't., and increase popular pressure against it.
Democrats, follow this example in protest of the government!!!"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
-
No, the reasoning is perfectly valid. Countless governments have fallen due to resignations or boycotts of elections."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Who says I listen to them? Or believe them?Originally posted by Ned
Cruddy, I think it is you who have to stop listening to the very biased leftist apologists for extreme religious fundamentalism. See Chris Hitchens on the left's fascination with the Islamic extremists:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...03#post3422703
I just appreciate some people have a different point of view which is totally valid from their perspective.
I just wonder about the perspective portrayed in the brown tongue media;-
"They're not insurgents, they're terrorists". Propaganda. If they were terrorists they wouldn't be involved in a stand up fight with US Marines - they'd carefully slink away to backstab another day.
"We are liberating Iraq" - not what Wolfowicz said.
"We will stay until the job's done" - we will stay until we've sucked every last drop of black gold.
I supported the war to get rid of Saddam. He's gone. So why is the US building 14 massive permanent military bases there.
All my words, not just some poxy link.Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84Comment
-
Resigning from the government is cost-free right now, considering that elections will be at the end of January and a coalition government will constituted based on the outcome of those elections.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
-
This/Your point of view hypocritical in the least. At one point you profess your right to not have someone else's principles imposed on you while at the same time justifying imposing your principals on someone else.Originally posted by Ned
PAX, I quote from Hitchens:
"The blood-maddened thugs in Iraq, who would rather bring down the roof on a suffering people than allow them to vote, pictured prettily as "insurgents" or even, by Michael Moore, as the moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers. If this is liberal secularism, I'll take a modest, God-fearing, deer-hunting Baptist from Kentucky every time, as long as he didn't want to impose his principles on me (which our Constitution forbids him to do)."
"blood-maddened thugs" In order to prove your point about the Iraqi opposition you must first use logic to prove they are "blood-maddened thugs". Saying that the "blood-maddened thugs" would rather bring down the roof on a suffering people than allow them to vote is not proof. I'm sure that Hitchens is not a mind reader and we don't need mind readers. The "terrorists" have already made their positions known. They feel that the government is a. not legitimate and b. a puppet of the U.S. I wish that you would use something other than empty rhetoric and start making valid points.
P.S. I notice that you do the same thing to democrats!!!What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
-
Maybe you missed the part about boycotting those elections.Originally posted by DanS
Resigning from the government is cost-free right now, considering that elections will be at the end of January and a coalition government will constituted based on the outcome of those elections.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
-
Hitchens is an imbecile.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
-
Ned,
I just want you to understand that it's important for the U.S. to be successful in Iraq. One of the first ways we can do that is to assess and evaluate the enemy fairly.
We have to know his goals in order to win. A blanket assessment that insurgents are "terrorists" or "blood-maddened thugs" or "rats" as I've heard them referred to makes us weaker. It makes us underestimate his abilities and his support. That was also a mistake made in vietnam.What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
-
No, I didn't. That decision can always be reversed by these groups.Maybe you missed the part about boycotting those elections.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
-
This may be a wise decision for them, politically now. To let the assault on Fallujah happen, after theyd spoken so loudly against it, without then following up would leave them without credibility with their Sunni Arab constituents, most of whom oppose the Fallujah action. Allawi and Negroponte certainly took this into account when making the decision to go in.Originally posted by Ramo
The Iraqi Islamic Party has just pulled out of the Allawi gov't (over Fallujah). They were the faction of Sunni Arabs that supported the occupation (as opposed to the more popular Association of Muslim Scholars).
Yawir may come next.
Basically, Sunni Arabs are out of the government.
And they're nearly certain to boycott the election.
The next step, once the battle in Fallujah is done (which it isnt) will be physical and economic reconstruction in Fallujah, as well as political reconciliation with moderate Sunni Arabs.
I note that the Iraqi FM has made an unexpected visit to Saudi Arabia today. Given the close connections between KSA and the Iraqi Sunni Arabs this may be quite significant.
Ultimately the Sunni Arabs have to face the reality of their minority status in Iraq, and determine whether they really have more to gain than lose with an election boycott. Since they are certainly counting on regional support to offset their minority status, the role of regional sunni arab powers will matter."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
-
So in effect you're saying that the Allawi is more concerned about pleasing the U.S. than sunni's in his government. Now he faces a situation, in which the sunnis are withdrawing their support from the government which could potentially lead to a drastic escalation in the conflict. In other words the Battle for Fallujah is a losing battle. Is that what you're saying?What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
-
There was at least one battalion of Iraqi forces that largely refused to go in - this was reported on NPR a couple of days ago, and i think i mentioned it already. The unit that took the hospital on day one was a commando unit that was heavily Kurdish, but not entirely so, as Sully implies (Sully's been in a deep funk the last week, and its showingOriginally posted by Last Conformist
Not to blacken LOTM's day or anything, but Little Raven posted this on CFC, attributed to Andrew Sullivan:
No Iraqi army or national guard unit fought in Al Fallujah, sources close to the Interim Iraqi Government (IIG) say. Iraqi national guard units reportedly have refused to attack guerrilla positions; their commanders have been unable to make soldiers move forward and some officers are siding with the troops. Only the Iraqi army's special forces unit, which is mostly Kurdish, helped search for hidden guerrillas behind U.S. Marine lines outside the city. Hundreds of Iraqi soldiers have deserted to bases around Al Fallujah, the sources added.
) In the operation SUBSEQUENT to the first day Iraqi forces have played significant roles, being assigned the tasks of assaulting mosques and other sensitive targets. Several Iraqi Battalions have been involved.
The actions of at least one were documented by reports in the New York Times."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
-
Originally posted by Pax
So in effect you're saying that the Allawi is more concerned about pleasing the U.S. than sunni's in his government. Now he faces a situation, in which the sunnis are withdrawing their support from the government which could potentially lead to a drastic escalation in the conflict. In other words the Battle for Fallujah is a losing battle. Is that what you're saying?
What Im saying
1. Asserting the governments control over all parts of Iraq, and denying the insurgency a valuable sanctuary was more important than retaining the Iraqi Islamic Party in the govt at this time.
2. He clearly does not think that this withdrawl is as much a threat of escalation as allowing the insurgents to retain control of Fallujah would have been.
3. Whether the Battle for Fallujah is a winning battle is impossible to ascertain at the moment, as even the military side of the battle is not complete, much less the economic reconstruction and political maneuvering which will follow. Not to mention the follow up battles in the places to which those insurgents who have gotten away have fled to - apparently Ramadi, perhaps also Latifiyah and Mosul."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
-
I don't want to put words in your mouth.Originally posted by lord of the mark
What Im saying
1. Asserting the governments control over all parts of Iraq, and denying the insurgency a valuable sanctuary was more important than retaining the Iraqi Islamic Party in the govt at this time.
2. He clearly does not think that this withdrawl is as much a threat of escalation as allowing the insurgents to retain control of Fallujah would have been.
3. Whether the Battle for Fallujah is a winning battle is impossible to ascertain at the moment, as even the military side of the battle is not complete, much less the economic reconstruction and political maneuvering which will follow. Not to mention the follow up battles in the places to which those insurgents who have gotten away have fled to - apparently Ramadi, perhaps also Latifiyah and Mosul.
I would like to know who do you think is most likely to help the Iraqi's have a stable government. The U.S. or other Iraqi's?What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
Comment