"Why I voted for Bush"

[Ben Kenobi]

What church or religion doesn't use government to impose it's doctrines on others?

How is the Christian church using the government to impose beliefs on others?

You should really avoid assuming what you are trying to prove.

The rise of republican and democratic institutions has forced the church to share more of it's power thereby weakening it's ability to compel strict adherence, but all we need is history to see how churches won't leave others alone when given the power of the state.

How so? How has the church intervened in the US? Do all churches intervene, or just a few?

The irony is many religions were founded by people who were persecuted by the state and would be rolling in their graves to see what they spawned. Imagine what Jesus would think upon seeing the Inquisition committed in his name. Burn some witches in His name? Brilliant! These are the people Jesus was talking about when He will say the following words on Judgement Day, "I never knew you". But Jesus never told His followers to form a government and compel adherence, that is a mockery of true Christianity.

I agree with you. But I don't see any evidence that the churches compel obedience in the US.

So IMO, Christianity died long ago - it was killed by the Romans when they made it the state's religion. If it lives on, it does so only on a personal level.

Couldn't the churches adapt to their new role?

[aaglo]

Originally posted by Arrian
Bush makes him feel better about America. That's what really matters.

Wow, I didn't know things were that bad over there. Should the rest of the world start sending some help to USA?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No worse than the Kerry/Chamberlain comparisons.

This comparison is funny, given that Bush perpetrates the only appeasement policy made by the US I'm aware of (with North Korea)

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Spiffor

This comparison is funny, given that Bush perpetrates the only appeasement policy made by the US I'm aware of (with North Korea)

I'm not sure if I mind appeasing them, those ****ers scare the **** out of me.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Boshko
I'm not sure if I mind appeasing them, those ****ers scare the **** out of me.

You'll notice that I wasn't a hint judgemental in my post. Americans in general are judgemental toward the word "appeasement", I just wanted to let them unleash their prejudices toward this policy

[Whaleboy]

Mr. Fun wouldn't stand up for me, even when he believed me to be right, let alone if I were wrong.

That's like asking someone to stand up for Hitler if he said 2+2=4

How is the Christian church using the government to impose beliefs on others?

impose
TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To establish or apply as compulsory; levy: impose a tax. 2. To apply or make prevail by or as if by authority: impose a peace settlement. See synonyms at dictate. 3. To obtrude or force (oneself, for example) on another or others. 4. Printing To arrange (type or plates) on an imposing stone. 5. To offer or circulate fraudulently; pass off: imposed a fraud on consumers.

(From the American Heritage Dictionary)

In order to impose it seems, one needs to establish a compulsory law.... i.e., one cannot do that. That cannot be equated with offering a choice... since homosexual rights are granted to all, including homophobes, but one has the right to not use them. If one didn't have that latter right, then yes gay people would be imposing but that is not the case, nor is it really conceivable. The sight of openly gay people being forced in Christian families? Well they are still choosing to use that right, and I'm sorry but in life you're going to encounter things you don't agree with. Arguing that of course is demonstrative of some considerable intolerance of course, my answer to that is that seeing other people living their lives is not imposition, the only way you can justify imposition is if you are being forced to be gay or forced to participate in gay marriage, that act of removing choice is unacceptable.

With regards to the question he was posing, you're right it's a poor argument. I've never seen Buddhists trying to lobby government, indeed most Eastern religions, mainstream Islam and Judaism only seem to lobby on a local level (with some exceptions) and that's generally for their own interests. It seems to be mostly evangelical Christians that want to remake the world in their own image (well, that and Islamic terrorists) but then with a belief is strong, extreme and nonsensical as theirs, is that really so surprising?

How so? How has the church intervened in the US? Do all churches intervene, or just a few?

Ah! You're splitting the issue into individuals churches/parishes? Or Churches as a religious group with numerous parishes under that? I'm inclined (as an outsider) to look at them all as the same thing, with a sliding scale of belief and extremity, so effectively look at evangelical christians as a whole, and you cannot deny the power their wield over government, and seek to wield where they do not. In their defence, with a community so large and the aforementioned belief/idiocy it is perhaps an inevitable part of human nature.

What I don't understand is how the god squad grew so rapidly... what circumstances have goaded people like this? Did they all see the passion of the christ and are it's equivalent of star-trek convention goers? Quite sad.

I agree with you. But I don't see any evidence that the churches compel obedience in the US.

I think you're twisting his words. The church seeks to make it's dogma law.... after all it believes it to be universally and absolutely true, with the big guy upstairs (the accountant) and their pre-fab God on their side, it would be strange to claim otherwise.

Couldn't the churches adapt to their new role?

Religion, from the Latin "re" meaning "return to" and "ligio" meaning "to bind", or "bondage". Religion is by definition a "return to bondage". Fine for personal choice... after all we deny ourselves the choices and rights available to us daily, but organised religion is doing it on a mass basis.... a herd of blind sheep following a blind, though rich shepherd.

If we hypothetically take that definition, and hold it to the Church (any physical or communal church), do you think Christ would approve? Removing the hypothetical, what other definition would you apply?

[Berzerker]

Ben -

How is the Christian church using the government to impose beliefs on others?

You should really avoid assuming what you are trying to prove.

Well Ben, it's amazingly obvious how Christians use government to impose their religion on others so I didn't think you needed case examples. Try the following: drugs, prostitution, gambling, booze (prohibition) and blue laws, homosexuality, abortion, porn, welfare, etc... And that's just recent US history after the Church lost alot of power... Hell, you just quoted a couple examples I supplied so why you accuse me of assuming what I'm trying to prove is beyond me.

I agree with you. But I don't see any evidence that the churches compel obedience in the US.

Why do you keep trying to limit the Church's crimes to US history when I'm talking about Christian history? Anyway, I've answered your question...

Couldn't the churches adapt to their new role?

Apparently not, when given power the Church becomes a monster and 1,500 years of history is proof.

[Kuciwalker]

Re: "Why I voted for Bush"

Originally posted by dojoboy
My decision came down to one of who makes me feel best about America. Between the two major candidates, it's Bush. Kerry does not.

This is hardwired, nothing Kerry can say could sway me.

So if I told you America was perfect you'd vote for me?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Do you think it's more or less likely that they target Los Angeles when they are being distracted in the deserts of Iraq?

Another deluded person who believes the war in Iraq really has something to with the war on terror!

[Berzerker]

With regards to the question he was posing, you're right it's a poor argument. I've never seen Buddhists trying to lobby government

Tibet was a Buddhist theocracy before the Chinese invaded...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
The situation was totally different anyway.

Hostages killed under Carter = 0

Hostages killed, and beheaded under Bush = too many to count

The correct formula to use playa is:

Number of Times US Soil was invaded and held by a hostile power under Carter: 1

Number of Times US Soil was invaded and held by a hostile power under Bush: 0

Number of Times Killer Bunnies rated as a higher threat than US Soil being invaded and held by a hostile power under Carter: at least once.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
The correct formula to use playa is:

Number of Times US Soil was invaded and held by a hostile power under Carter: 1

Number of Times US Soil was invaded and held by a hostile power under Bush: 0

Number of Times Killer Bunnies rated as a higher threat than US Soil being invaded and held by a hostile power under Carter: at least once.

Something is wrong with your theory if 9/11 doesn't fit in there somewhere.

-Drachasor

[DinoDoc]

Somethng is wrong with your theory if you feel the need to comment on something without following the conversation.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
My name is Ted Striker and I have a problem

I keep knocking over lamps

I have been through 3 reduction surgeries but it keeps getting in the way of things. One time a bird landed on it.

oh man, this made my afternoon


as for the rest of the thread:

all bush has to show for is his tough stance against terrorsts who can't hurt him...

domestic problems are convieniently being ignored, the fact that a certain company linked to his administration ****ed over the US tax payer is muffled away, etc etc etc...

and still for some people it seems more important to keep up the appearance that america is able to take on the entire world all by itself. (however, most of those people haven't even seen an army/navy/AF barracks on th inside, how convenient)

all great empires fell from the inside. and it is happening again, in front of our eyes.

[Spiffor]

What part of the US was invaded during Carter?