EU is becoming anti-christian in politics

[DanS]

The main issue with church and state combining is that in our current multicultural nations there are numerous religions and only the majority religion will make the rules (look at Saudi or iran for what that turns into). If the religious right ni the US keeps going, i can see the US turning into a similar state in due time, though I reckon you'd have certain states secceeding.

I think this is a little out of touch with the reality in the US. Undoubtedly, the US has a lot more varied religious tapestry than the EU. In my home town of 1,400 people, there were 14 different churches, for instance. That doesn't even count the Mennonites, Jehovah's Witness, Amish, and the like who had churches/meeting halls outside of town.

The US political system handles the religious cauldron that exists here just fine. I have no reason to believe that this ability would change with more of a mix of religions.

[lightblue]

hehe, I like hyperbole on this issue. I know it's not that bad. Still there's something like 30% of your population describing themselves as reborn christians (my equivalent of christian fundamentalists).

[DanS]

All born again christians are christian fundamentalists? Wow.

[alva]

All religionists are fundamentalists. That better?

[Japher]

All born again christians are christian fundamentalists? Wow.

Heck, most of the ones I met are. Seeing as most of them were Catholics before the "rebirth"... generally to baptist, which are bad enough already.

[Ned]

DanS, don't say the US is any different. The Dems have blocked every Catholic court appointee for some time. Kerry said he would continue to do so in the last debate.

And if you look at Apolyton's American leftists, the thing that animates them more than anything else is religion. To the left, anyone who is religious is 1) stupid; 2) bigoted; 3) racist; and 4) homophobic, the exact opposition of the enlightened left.

[Japher]

I heard a 10 yo on the radio yesterday say that Bush is stupid because he doesn't support gay rights. The radio host informed the kid that neither does Kerry, in fact Chaney is more for gay rights than either of the democratic candidates. The kid than stammered and than said "yeah, but Bush is stupid, he don't even talk good."



People will vote Dem or Repub without even knowing what they are voting on. Similarly, ppl will not question their faith in respect to their everyday life. Religion gives a sense of blind security; "oh, well, if I die at least I will go to heaven, even though I killed 12 ppl... that's why I confessed."

The same people want the same blind security in their government

[DanS]

And if you look at Apolyton's American leftists

I'd prefer not to, considering among other things that Apolyton leftists are in no way representative of leftists overall in this country. There are plenty of born again christians who are liberals. See, for instance, African Americans.

[Japher]

There are plenty of born again christians who are liberals. Just look at the blacks.

Which makes even less sense!

IMO, blacks and religious idiots should be republicans... but then, they don't want to be confused with NASCAR fans

[GePap]

Originally posted by Japher
I heard a 10 yo on the radio yesterday say that Bush is stupid because he doesn't support gay rights. The radio host informed the kid that neither does Kerry, in fact Chaney is more for gay rights than either of the democratic candidates. The kid than stammered and than said "yeah, but Bush is stupid, he don't even talk good."

Well, what could the kid do in the face of a lie? Cheney's position is essentially the same as Edwards and Kerry's, as far as he has stated it publicly, which is against a constitutional ban on the practice but personally opposed. Kerry and Edwards have not said much on civil unions thought. Do you have a quote in which Cheney backs gay marriages, or comes out for civil unions?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by DanS
All born again christians are christian fundamentalists? Wow.

The converts are always the worst.

-Arrian

[GePap]

Originally posted by DanS


I'd prefer not to, considering among other things that Apolyton leftists are in no way representative of leftists overall in this country. There are plenty of born again christians who are liberals. See, for instance, African Americans.

A lot of those evangelicals have worldly needs they need met, like jobs, healthcare, better housing and so forth- thus worrying about doctrinal issues like abortion is a secondary concern to better feeding and educating their kids, which the dems do.

[Japher]

which the dems do

So the evangelicals can't supply for themselves so they get the dems who love to buy votes to give them what they need. Yup, dems are socialists, I'll agree.

[Ben Kenobi]

One of the enduring fascinating differences between the US (maybe Canada too) and the EU is that there's a strong anti-clerical strain in some countries of the EU and hardly any in the US.*

Anticlericalism, if anything, is stronger here in Canada than in the EU.

The local archbishop had his house stoned for his statements against gay marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's not anti-Catholic, it's just that European governments are moving with the times and the Catholic leaders aren't - although many Catholics are.

It's gone beyond that to outright bigotry, and hatred directed against Catholics.

You may not agree with the church, but that's no reason to persecute their clergy.