EU is becoming anti-christian in politics

[DanS]

Religion has absolutely no place what so ever in a modern state (and it's one of my main gripes with Bush).

Please note that the populations of advanced, modern states are split on this issue. The US has a good portion of the total population of these states. Note also that Bush is following the path very well worn by his predecessors. Religion in politics in the US is like apple pie -- it has always been thus.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, I don't see it as anti-Christian either. European human rights has determined that some things should be legal which the church doesn't want legal, such as homosexuality and abortion. To be at odds over those issues is not being anti-Catholic.

[BeBMan]

Which, of course, does not mean that it should be the same in the EU.

Edit: to DanS

[lightblue]

The US has a fascination with religion because we shipped all our religious nutjobs over and they ended up being the founding Fathers and all that

To be fair i don't know why Americans are so into religion compared to say Western Europe or Australia. I used to think it was because Europe was so disgusted with humanity after WW1 and 2 that it slowly became more untenable to belive in a god that could be associated with us. Australia does not have that background though.. Guess we sent the crims to Australia and the religious nutjobs to the US.

The main issue with church and state combining is that in our current multicultural nations there are numerous religions and only the majority religion will make the rules (look at Saudi or iran for what that turns into). If the religious right ni the US keeps going, i can see the US turning into a similar state in due time, though I reckon you'd have certain states secceeding.

[Kuciwalker]

Many of the founding fathers were deists or atheists.

[lightblue]

Ok, take that bit out and the rest still stands. The whole early colonial times were dominated by various religous sects that were deported wholesale.

[Whaleboy]

Christianity

[germanos]

Originally posted by DanS
By the way, I view a lot of what Buttiglione has said as more having to do with Italian machismo than any real issues that need to be discussed.

Whining to your opponents that they are anti-catholic is machismo
What he butthead he is .

[GePap]

Good for the EU

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by lightblue
Ok, take that bit out and the rest still stands. The whole early colonial times were dominated by various religous sects that were deported wholesale.

It's not that. It's that there was never a violent revolt against an integrated church and state, because we headed off that issue.

[DanS]

Germanos: I was referring to his comment that "[t]he family exists to permit a woman to have children and be protected by her husband." This seems to me to be more Italian machismo than anything else because the family exists for a lot of other reasons as well.

[DanS]

Which, of course, does not mean that it should be the same in the EU.

I think the EU should come up with a compromise that works best for the EU, without sidelining some people like the Poles, who don't appear to have the same opinions as the rabid anti-clerical French. For the Poles, the church led them out of communism and into democracy. The Poles in turn led Eastern Europe out of communism into democracy. Stuff like that should be honored.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, I don't see it as anti-Christian either. European human rights has determined that some things should be legal which the church doesn't want legal, such as homosexuality and abortion. To be at odds over those issues is not being anti-Catholic.

Yep.
Most states within the EU really practice the Separation between church and state,
although there are political parties within most of the States whose Opinions more resemble the Opinions of the church
(for example in Germany this would be the CDU [Christian Democratic Union] whith their current Leader Angela Merkel, and at the last Elections we even had a small Party which wanted to create some kind of Christian Godstate fortunately they didn´t get many votes ])

[GePap]

Originally posted by DanS


I think the EU should come up with a compromise that works best for the EU, without sidelining some people like the Poles, who don't appear to have the same opinions as the rabid anti-clerical French. For the Poles, the church led them out of communism and into democracy. The Poles in turn led Eastern Europe out of communism into democracy. Stuff like that should be honored.

Why? Poland can chose not to join the EU if they care that much. The EU should priorotize equal human rights to all its members-screw the religious opinions of other individuals.

[alva]

Originally posted by DanS


Please note that the populations of advanced, modern states are split on this issue. The US has a good portion of the total population of these states. Note also that Bush is following the path very well worn by his predecessors. Religion in politics in the US is like apple pie -- it has always been thus.

Hmm, am I correct in thinking that for example New-york is pretty much on par with Europe on this issue.

Anyway, you'll get there too, someday. Eventually enlightenment will hapen for you guys too....I hope.