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**David Floyd** · September 8, 2004, 00:42

It's possible to opt out of Social Security. A job I applied for in Orlando doesn't make payments to SS, but instead has their own retirement plan. I don't know the extent of the details however.

Sorry, but it isn't possible to opt out as far as I know. If your job doesn't take out the taxes that it's supposed to, you are still responsible for them.

Now, it's possible that that job pays the SS taxes for its employees, but I'm not aware of any scenario or situation in which I can opt out of Social Security. If you know more details, I'd be VERY interested.

**Ben Kenobi** · September 8, 2004, 00:43

But that's exactly what you do when you support and vote for government social programs. You force me to help others.

Uh, where do you see me supporting social security in this thread?

**chequita guevara** · September 8, 2004, 00:43

Originally posted by Berzerker
chegitz -
Life doesn't improve because of social spending, it improves because of advancements in technology. And social spending reduces research and production...

Incorrect. Old people were living on the streets and eating cat food. Improvements in technology had nothing to do with fixing that situation. Making sure they had a government funded pension did. Technology may make life better in the future, but cash in the hand makes life better right now, and old people only got right now.

**David Floyd** · September 8, 2004, 00:43

I don't, I just want to be clear, and have it on record that Ben Kenobi does not support government mandated social programs.

**chequita guevara** · September 8, 2004, 00:44

Originally posted by David Floyd
Sorry, but it isn't possible to opt out as far as I know.

I emphasized the relevant part. It was the Orange County Library System, so I assume they weren't pulling anything shady.

**Dis** · September 8, 2004, 00:44

I'm against social programs in theory. But now we have them, it would be foolish to get rid of them.

And some statistics do seem to show social programs reduce crime rates...

I say we keep what we have, and don't increase taxes to make any more.

**David Floyd** · September 8, 2004, 00:44

but cash in the hand makes life better right now, and old people only got right now.

Of course, they had their whole lives to plan for retirement, they just, for whatever reasons, didn't do so.

**Al B. Sure!** · September 8, 2004, 00:45

I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but the vast majority of parents are not "neglectful and abusive". If yours were, I'm sorry, but most parents are not

hahaha... come to my neighbourhood and point out parents who are not neglectful and abusive... you'll be lucky to find a single parent who loves his/her kids...

**David Floyd** · September 8, 2004, 00:45

I emphasized the relevant part. It was the Orange County Library System, so I assume they weren't pulling anything shady.

Fair enough. If it's possible, it's possible, I just have never heard of it.

**chequita guevara** · September 8, 2004, 00:46

Originally posted by Albert Speer
the 1960's was the cause of moral decay, not the welfare state.

Moral decay!

**David Floyd** · September 8, 2004, 00:46

hahaha... come to my neighbourhood and point out parents who are not neglectful and abusive... you'll be lucky to find a single parent who loves his/her kids...

OK smartass - come to my neighborhood and point out parents who ARE neglectful and abusive to the extent you are describing. I bet you'll be "lucky" to find even a couple.

We can go back and forth like that all day, but the relevant point is that ON THE WHOLE, the majority of parents - the great majority of parents - are not abusive.

**chequita guevara** · September 8, 2004, 00:48

Originally posted by David Floyd
Of course, they had their whole lives to plan for retirement, they just, for whatever reasons, didn't do so.

Or they did and something happened which kicked the chair out from under them, they kids died or were in poverty or refused to help, the economy went under and their retirement was wiped out. Sure would sucked if you retired in 2001, what with stock prices collapsing. My 401K lost 60% of its value. Good thing I have thirty more years to rebuild it. At least, no matter what, I have SS to rely on.

**Al B. Sure!** · September 8, 2004, 00:49

We can go back and forth like that all day, but the relevant point is that ON THE WHOLE, the majority of parents - the great majority of parents - are not abusive.

where the hell am i living? it can't be america then!

**chequita guevara** · September 8, 2004, 00:51

Originally posted by Albert Speer
where the hell am i living? it can't be america then!

Philidelphia is not America. It is a ****hole. You make the classic conservative mistake of looking around you and assuming what you see is universal. Having lived all over the country, I can assure you that most of the country does not live like your urban hell.

**David Floyd** · September 8, 2004, 00:51

chegitz,

Or they did and something happened which kicked the chair out from under them, they kids died or were in poverty or refused to help,

Hey! I want to be able to exercise that same option!

the economy went under and their retirement was wiped out.

Very possible. Again, though, I fully recognize there are situations in which a person can be poor due to no great fault of their own. I just don't see how that automatically entitles them to money I earned.

At least, no matter what, I have SS to rely on.

Unless it goes under before then (or, unless someone like me manages to get rid of it).

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