The Social Contract?

[David Floyd]

in real limited amounts... just so the little children won't be starving... i dont see that as too much.

But I do. Don't force your beliefs about my money on me, and don't take my money without my permission. "Real limited amounts" my ass

[Ben Kenobi]

yeah well it doesnt work like that... you're lucky if your parents take care of you as a child to begin with

Perhaps this is a symptom rather than a cause. If you break one link, how hard is it to break another?

[Ben Kenobi]

There ARE jobs out there, and ultimately, that's why I don't tend to feel all that bad for homeless people.

Right, and I suppose you've walked a mile in their shoes.

I feel bad sometimes when I get a job, because I know there are others who need it more.

[Ben Kenobi]

The social contract is the concept that we have a moral obligation to take care of our neighbours and we benefit from doing so.

Families, not neighbours, are the way that I've heard the social contract stated. Sure, the concept may have been broadened to include neighbours, but it all starts with family.

[David Floyd]

Right, and I suppose you've walked a mile in their shoes.

That doesn't change the fact that their are jobs available, even if they may seem unpleasant.

I feel bad sometimes when I get a job, because I know there are others who need it more.

Why should you feel bad about it? You had the motivation to do what you needed to do, in order to secure yourself the lifestyle that you want. You were looking out for yourself, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Al B. Sure!]

Dave's fantasy world would be so horrible... streets filled with begging homeless 7 year olds... then the truck will come by to pick up some of the girls and boys to be legally fondled and sexually abused by perverts who pay premium dollars for the service but the children get pennies...

[David Floyd]

Yes, obviously I'm in favor of rape and child abuse. Oh well, you're in favor of armed robbery, so I guess we're both *******s

[Ben Kenobi]

That doesn't change the fact that their are jobs available, even if they may seem unpleasant.

Again, walk a mile in their shoes before being so quick off the mark.

Consider one thing. How often does someone get paid working for best buy? What if they don't have a place to live? How are they going to get cleaned up enough so that they will be able to get the job, and hold the job without having the money for a place to stay, and to get to and from the job, plus to pay for their own food in the meantime, so that they have the energy to work?

If you have to wait two weeks, this is all a significant burden to getting and keeping the job.

Suppose the job says to submit a resume. Well, how are you going to do that without a computer? Go to public library, and prepare on to be printed off? Again, that takes time, and money, because what if you don't live anywhere near the public library?

They charge for prints, and you don't have the money to pay for them, so you can print off a resume, to look for work, so you can get a job, and not have to be on the street anymore?

Why should you feel bad about it? You had the motivation to do what you needed to do, in order to secure yourself the lifestyle that you want. You were looking out for yourself, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Maybe because I know that he needs the job more than I.

[Al B. Sure!]

Dave:

you have already made it clear that you don't give a damn about homeless children... the world is bound to have at least a handful of homeless children (more like millions)... you're in favour of legalizing prostitution... i'm not seeing how you wouldn't be in favour of the world i described. you dont care about impoverished children and you want prostitution legalized. what i described is the inevitable result.

[David Floyd]

Consider one thing. How often does someone get paid working for best buy? What if they don't have a place to live? How are they going to get cleaned up enough so that they will be able to get the job, and hold the job without having the money for a place to stay, and to get to and from the job, plus to pay for their own food in the meantime, so that they have the energy to work?

All valid questions. Let's see, I'm sure they can stay at a YMCA for a week or two, but in any case, that's not the point. Why are they in their current situation? They got laid off from their old job, perhaps? Well, obviously they didn't try too hard to get a new one - or maybe weren't willing to accept a pay cut. I don't know - the answer isn't the same for everyone. Are there some people out there who simply have no chance to hold down a job? Probably. Does that entitle them to anything they don't earn? Certainly not.

Why someone who doesn't work is entitled to something I only get because I'm working is beyond me.

AS,

you have already made it clear that you don't give a damn about homeless children...

Actually, you're assuming that. I may care, but I also have to look out for myself. I firmly believe that everyone looking after their own interests (ie, being "selfish") leads to the best result.

you're in favour of legalizing prostitution

Yep, but not rape or sexual assault.

you dont care about impoverished children and you want prostitution legalized. what i described is the inevitable result

Yes, and the inevitable result of having any amount of freedom is that someone will use it to hurt someone else. That's what laws and law enforcement is for - I'm not an anarchist. Just because I favor the legalization of all victimless crimes doesn't mean I favor legalizing crimes that have actual victims (which is redundant, a crime has to have a victim for it to really be a crime, at least logically).

[Berzerker]

yeah right... like that happens...

It does all over the world, or at least has up until the welfare state appeared en force.

yeah well it doesnt work like that... you're lucky if your parents take care of you as a child to begin with

Notice how you're describing the current state of affairs under a welfare state? See a possible connection?

explain...

the way i see it, the moral decay of society necessitates gov't intervention.

That's counter-intuitive, if the population is morally decaying, then the politicians aren't going to be any better, probably much worse. Look at how these people lie about each other to get elected. So, we have the chicken and egg question... I don't know which came first, the politician tempting voters with pay-offs under the guise of "social contract" or people demanding the state give them other people's money, but it doesn't really matter.

When were the first major social programs created? The Depression? What caused that? The government? Notice how the most "decadent" decade in this country's history - the Roaring Twenties - was induced if not created by a drug war? Elevating the state to the level of deity by presuming government can "save" our souls is a path to hell paved with good intentions...

[David Floyd]

BK,

Maybe because I know that he needs the job more than I.

OK, then quit and free your job up for someone else. Of course, that "someone else" you're worried about won't get the job - they either can't get the job, as you seem to focus on, or simply won't try to get the job, as I focus on. Either way, though, the job will simply go to someone else like yourself. End result? You screwed yourself out of a perfectly good job because you feel bad for people who have less than you do. How does this help those people? It doesn't.

[monkspider]

I think David Floyd needs to get visited by the ghost of his old partner Best Buy crew chief this Christmas.

[David Floyd]

Eh?

[Al B. Sure!]

I firmly believe that everyone looking after their own interests (ie, being "selfish") leads to the best result.

children can't look out for their own interests the same way you can...