The Social Contract?

[chequita guevara]

We could pay for it ourselves, we just choose not to. Sticking our kids with the debt is more palatable then raising taxes.

[Al B. Sure!]

We could pay for it ourselves, we just choose not to. Sticking our kids with the debt is more palatable then raising taxes.

in the long-run, we're all dead...

i'm with keynes on this one. the govt can spend as much as it wants. capitalism is an artificial construct.

[David Floyd]

i'm not much of a fan of social security but we got our hands tied on this one. nothing we conservatives or yall libertarians can do about that. the democrats were clever on that one.

Uh, sure there is.

1)Cut off any future benefits to anyone not already paid into the system. That is, once everyone who has paid into the system gets their money back, the system goes away.

2)However, liberals claim over and over again that the money you put into SS is not "your money" - that's how they justify it, after all. It's neither yours now or yours when you retire - it isn't saved for you. It goes into the general funds. This being the case, if we just cut off Social Security tomorrow, then no one is out any of their own money, right?

So which is it? Is it your money or isn't it? If so, then why can't I do as I please with my money, and if not, then there's no problem cutting off benefits immediately, from a fairness perspective, now is there?

[Ben Kenobi]

i'm not much of a fan of social security but we got our hands tied on this one. nothing we conservatives or yall libertarians can do about that. the democrats were clever on that one.

What if we reach a point where we young folks need to pay 101% of our income in order to keep social security going?

Then the whole thing collapses.

Another thing is when the young people stop paying into social security, because they have lost faith in the system. Then you have a real problem. Sure the money that the other folks put into social security should be given to them, but that money has already gone to the old folks before them.

[Berzerker]

Bingo! There is something morally bankrupt about that... A natural consequence of the re-distribution of wealth mentality?

[David Floyd]

As to the "guns and butter" argument, General Ludd, I don't think that Berzerker supports increased defense spending, so you're arguing against a strawman. I know that I certainly don't. "Extra" money freed up by eliminating social programs should simply go back to the taxpayer, so that they can provide for themselves.

We don't even need our CURRENT military force levels to "protect ourselves" - conventional military forces don't stop terrorist attacks, so forget that argument, and our current conventional force level is not needed to deter state-vs-state aggression - that's deterred by a number of things, such as the threat of economic collapse, nuclear weapons, etc.

[David Floyd]

Sure the money that the other folks put into social security should be given to them,

Only if you believe that money paid into Social Security is actually set aside for or guaranteed to you, in the future. Hint: It's not.

[Ben Kenobi]

Only if you believe that money paid into Social Security is actually set aside for or guaranteed to you, in the future. Hint: It's not.

I make that point already, David.

[Berzerker]

2)However, liberals claim over and over again that the money you put into SS is not "your money" - that's how they justify it, after all. It's neither yours now or yours when you retire - it isn't saved for you. It goes into the general funds. This being the case, if we just cut off Social Security tomorrow, then no one is out any of their own money, right?

So which is it? Is it your money or isn't it? If so, then why can't I do as I please with my money, and if not, then there's no problem cutting off benefits immediately, from a fairness perspective, now is there?

Peculiar ain't it?

Logic strikes again...

[Al B. Sure!]

by the way... would anyone here be bothered by having a whole lot of homeless seniors begging in the streets?

[David Floyd]

Not really - I pass tons of homeless people in Austin everyday. As long as they don't try to wash my ****ing windshield, I pretty much ignore them.

[Ben Kenobi]

by the way... would anyone here be bothered by having a whole lot of homeless seniors begging in the streets?

I would, which is why the title is ironic. The original social contract comes between families, where the children take care of the parent when the parent gets old, as the parent took care of the children, when the children were young.

No government in there, eh?

[Al B. Sure!]

Dave:

what about homeless children? just asking if anyone homeless bothers you, not on topic.

Ben:

I would, which is why the title is ironic. The original social contract comes between families, where the children take care of the parent when the parent gets old, as the parent took care of the children, when the children were young.

yeah right... like that happens...

[Ben Kenobi]

yeah right... like that happens...

That's the way it's supposed to work.

[Al B. Sure!]

yeah well it doesnt work like that... you're lucky if your parents take care of you as a child to begin with