Modern Chinese-Japanese Relations: Is there any hope?

[notyoueither]

Dashi said something interesting. Japan has not apologised, but China would never apologise for something similar. Is that true?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Do we gain anything by sitting in our respective holes and flinging dung at each other?

One thing the Japanese government can do is stop visiting the Yasukuni Shrine, which enshrines 14 Class A war criminals. You don't see the Germans enshrine Hitler et al. That's just not done. Or they can throw the murderers out, which is the proper way to fix this.

Another thing they can do is to reign in the rightwingers and stop whitewashing their actions during WWII.

A wound can't heal until you clean it thoroughly and stop messing with it.

[notyoueither]

When will the PRC stop adoring Mao?

I have Chinese clients to this day who insist that none of their computer components come from the PRC.

Are we not asking more than others are willing to give?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Dashi said something interesting. Japan has not apologised, but China would never apologise for something similar. Is that true?

Impossible to say.

During the last 200 years or so China had been on the receiving end of aggressions and invasions, up till the end of WWII.

[notyoueither]

And would China apologise if the situations were reversed?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Impossible to say.

During the last 200 years or so China had been on the receiving end of aggressions and invasions, up till the end of WWII.

How can it be impossible to say if you expect it unconditionally from someone else?

Where are the apologies to Tibetans, or the families of the victims of the early stages of the revolution? Can that be mustered?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by notyoueither
When will the PRC stop adoring Mao?

Adoring Mao? Mao is properly revered as the driving force behind the founding of the PRC. It was the first time in centuries that China regained its feet, not fragmented by various warlords or subjugated by an outside power.

Originally posted by notyoueither
Are we not asking more than others are willing to give?

Com'on, we haven't asked for compensations for all the deaths and damaged caused by Japanese invasion and occupation. That would be a staggering sum.

[notyoueither]

What about a quiet apology at the grave sides of all those victims of the revolution. Can that be done?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by notyoueither
How can it be impossible to say if you expect it unconditionally from someone else?

Because we haven't invaded another country and systematically carried out large scale murders.

Originally posted by notyoueither
Where are the apologies to Tibetans, or the families of the victims of the early stages of the revolution? Can that be mustered?

Tibet is a complex issue, but evidence exists that it was never an indepedent country. For example, the selection of a new lama would need to be ultimately approved by Beijing, even way back during the Qing dynasty.

As for people who were wrongfully accused or killed during the Cultural Revolution, say, their honour was restored and (some) compensation was made.

[Natalinasmpf]

By "early stages of the revolution", are you referring to the Cultural Revolution?

There were very little civilian casualties comitted by the Communists in China in the Chinese Revolution / Civil War. Eight points of attention, three points of discipline: won the hearts and minds of the people.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Because we haven't invaded another country and systematically carried out large scale murders.

Does that have to be the same country to win the prize?

Tibet is a complex issue, but evidence exists that it was never an indepedent country. For example, the selection of a new lama would need to be ultimately approved by Beijing, even way back during the Qing dynasty.

As for people who were wrongfully accused or killed during the Cultural Revolution, say, their honour was restored and (some) compensation was made.

re victims of Cultural Revolution, let me and the world know when that happens. If China can admit mistakes, that would increase the pressure on Japan. Our dead vets and their families would love to know, because one reason given to them for the denial is the culture (which Dashi seems to indicate is not just in Japan).

re Tibet. I guess it wasn't 'yours' when the PRC had to invade it, eh?

Oh, we can come up with al sorts of justifications for bad things over this side of the world too. Most recent was that parts of Poland rightfully belonged to Germany because *gasp* some German speaking people lived there. That started all sorts of ****.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
By "early stages of the revolution", are you referring to the Cultural Revolution?

There were very little civilian casualties comitted by the Communists in China in the Chinese Revolution / Civil War. Eight points of attention, three points of discipline: won the hearts and minds of the people.

Did it win the hearts and minds of the dead?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Canadians, and Brits, and Yanks, and Aussies, and Dutch, and Koreans, and Phillipinos, and... have reasons to not like Japanese behaviour during a certain period, and subsequent Japanese government attitudes towards the past as well.

Do we gain anything by sitting in our respective holes and flinging dung at each other?

It's easy for some people to talk about forgiveness when they have never been victims of atrocities.

I've met Canadian war vets who have still not forgiven the Japanese, and some who have. One of the vets with a grudge was Leonard Birchall who spent years in a Japanese POW camp and was forced to work like a slave.

It is not our place to judge whether they should or should not have a grudge.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Oh, we can come up with al sorts of justifications for bad things over this side of the world too. Most recent was that parts of Poland rightfully belonged to Germany because *gasp* some German speaking people lived there. That started all sorts of ****.

Actually most recent was that Saddam was a terrorist threat. That started **** too, just not such a high intensity of ****.

I'm sure someone will be along to apologise soon. Oh look, here comes Senator Kerry!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai


It's easy for some people to talk about forgiveness when they have never been victims of atrocities.

I've met Canadian war vets who have still not forgiven the Japanese, and some who have. One of the vets with a grudge was Leonard Birchall who spent years in a Japanese POW camp and was forced to work like a slave.

It is not our place to judge whether they should or should not have a grudge.

It is our place to judge whether our society should encourage hatred based on a grudge.