Modern Chinese-Japanese Relations: Is there any hope?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Germany has gone out it's way to apologize and try to atone for what it did. Japan likes to play the denial game.

That's pretty much it.

Plus consecutive LDP cabinets worshipped WWII war criminals such as Tojo, glorifying them in the process. Plus Japanese courts kept ruling against civil cases for compensating victims of the war. Plus their condoning of rightwinger actions.

The ball's in Japan's court. It's up to them to mend their ways.

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Really? That's an interesting bit of unknown history.

Well the only bit of China that Japan controlled for a long period of time was Taiwan, and they turned out OK. Certainly better than the mess that Mao made of things.

Another thing that should be noted is that while prejudices exist, it generally takes government action to fan them into a state when violence takes place. For example when some US soldiers ran over some kids in Korea a while back it was a minor news story until some idiot politician started screaming for American blood and then the whole country became awash in people screaming about the American murderers. So because of all its shrill anti-Japanese propaganda, the CCP is pretty directly responsible for this sort of anti-Japanese incident.

This same sort of hatred exists in Korea. I get little students telling me how dirty Japan is and I've been screamed at for labelling the Sea of Japan as the Sea of Japan (all English language maps have it printed as "East Sea" with the Yellow Sea being occasionally "West Sea," which is idiotic since if you're learning English its pointless to use a term that is used nowhere outside of Korea). However, what I've seen since moving to Seoul is that the kids who've been abroad are much more free from anti-Japanese prejudice than the ones from small towns, I even have kids defending Japan when other kids say it should be nuked nowadays

Hmmmm, it seems that a lot of the things that I don't like about Korea get exaggerated to the point of caricature when it comes to China.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boshko
Well the only bit of China that Japan controlled for a long period of time was Taiwan, and they turned out OK. Certainly better than the mess that Mao made of things.

Take China under KMT and China under CCP. I dunno. Compare 14/05/1927 to 05/05/1964. Which is better?

Certainly Mao made mistakes. The thing is it is generally held that his accomplishments are greater.

Originally posted by Boshko
So because of all its shrill anti-Japanese propaganda, the CCP is pretty directly responsible for this sort of anti-Japanese incident.

Where's this "shrill anti-Japanese propaganda?" In fact, public demonstration against Japan were forbidden until recently.

[Bosh]

Take China under KMT and China under CCP. I dunno. Compare 14/05/1927 to 05/05/1964. Which is better?

That's ridiculous. It makes no sense to compare 1927 to 1964, a much fairer comparison would be 1964 PRC and 1964 Taiwan.

[Tingkai]

Re: Modern Chinese-Japanese Relations: Is there any hope?

Originally posted by DaShi
Chinese people's hatred of Japan varies from person to person, but the one thing that is constant is that they all do.

Really? There are more than a billion Chinese, yet you know they all hate the Japanese? Does the word racist mean anything to you?



It's like someone saying that they have met a lot of racist Americans so all Americans are racist. Obviously this is not true.

Originally posted by DaShi
Some hate Japan so much as to boycott all Japanese products. Others just don't care, but will state I hate Japan just to fit in.

So you're saying that all Chinese people hate the Japanese, but some don't really hate the Japanese.



And travel to Hong Kong. The majority of the Chinese people I've met here tend to be fans of Japan.

Originally posted by DaShi
The only other place in the world that I can think of where such hatred is so universal, permitted, and perversed is the Middle East.

You have lived a sheltered life.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boshko
That's ridiculous. It makes no sense to compare 1927 to 1964, a much fairer comparison would be 1964 PRC and 1964 Taiwan.

1964 PRC saw the beginning of Cultural Revolution. 1964 Taiwan was still under martial law.

Neither is better it seems.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: Modern Chinese-Japanese Relations: Is there any hope?

Originally posted by Tingkai
Really? There are more than a billion Chinese, yet you know they all hate the Japanese?

mindseye's experience would be interesting.

[Tingkai]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Boshko
I've been screamed at for labelling the Sea of Japan as the Sea of Japan (all English language maps have it printed as "East Sea" with the Yellow Sea being occasionally "West Sea," which is idiotic since if you're learning English its pointless to use a term that is used nowhere outside of Korea). QUOTE]

If all English maps refer to it as the East Sea, why do you call it the Sea of Japan?

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


1964 PRC saw the beginning of Cultural Revolution. 1964 Taiwan was still under martial law.

Neither is better it seems.

Well at least Taiwan didn't have the Great Leap Forward.

If all English maps refer to it as the East Sea, why do you call it the Sea of Japan?

All English maps in Korea have it as East Sea, but they are all wrong since all English speaking people call it the Sea of Japan. It makes no sense to promote an English language term that is only used in a non-English speaking country.

[Tingkai]

Seems to me that it is referred to as the East Sea and the Sea of Japan.

I think it is understandable that Koreans prefer a more neutral term.

Edit: Encarta Dictionary refers to it as Sea of Japan and East Sea.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boshko
Well at least Taiwan didn't have the Great Leap Forward.

Great Leap Forward is one of Mao's mistakes. The move to collective farming was premature. Very bad timing.

Then again, nobody could forsee the coming severe famine.

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Seems to me that it is referred to as the East Sea and the Sea of Japan.

I think it is understandable that Koreans prefer a more neutral term.

Edit: Encarta Dictionary refers to it as Sea of Japan and East Sea.

Where is it referred to as the East Sea except for in Korea? and how is it nuetral for a body to be named after its geographical relation to Korea. Its like if the US named the Atlantic Ocean the East Ocean and then claimed that was nuetral.

Edit: Encarta Dictionary refers to it as Sea of Japan and East Sea.

That's just because of Korean lobbying, no non-Korean would ever refer to it as the East Sea in spoken language or anything. And if its the East Sea and the Sea of Japan then it should be labelled as such on English language maps made in Korea (a pet peeve of mine).

And the Japanese have the Sea between Korea and Japan the Koreans have the straight between Korea and Japan (Korea Straight), seems pretty even to me.

Then again, nobody could forsee the coming severe famine.

So you tell people to melt down all kinds of things (including farm implements) and spend much of the day doing this instead of farming and its difficult to see how famine could result?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Boshko
Where is it referred to as the East Sea except for in Korea? and how is it nuetral for a body to be named after its geographical relation to Korea. Its like if the US named the Atlantic Ocean the East Ocean and then claimed that was nuetral.

That's just because of Korean lobbying, no non-Korean would ever refer to it as the East Sea in spoken language or anything. And if its the East Sea and the Sea of Japan then it should be labelled as such on English language maps made in Korea (a pet peeve of mine).

Okay, no name is neutral, but I think in East Asia, including the Russian Far East, it is commonly referred to as the East Sea. I've always known it by both names. The old Chinese slang for the Japanese was the Eastern Sea Dwarves.

It's not surprising that English maps made in Korea use East Sea. English maps made in Japan probably only use Sea of Japan.

Yes, the Koreans have been lobbying for a name change, but that's what the Japanese did decades ago.

The name "Sea of Japan" came about after lobbying by the Japanese in the early 20th century when Japan had a strong international voice while China, Korea, the USSR did not.

The Japanese are apparently still lobbying to keep the name Sea of Japan.

Anyways, they're both wrong. The proper name is the East China Sea.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Great Leap Forward is one of Mao's mistakes.

[monkspider]

Here is an update regarding the recent Asia Cup soccer match and what the Chinese say about a Japanese goal.

"Having changed the position of the goal was the Japanese government conspiracy."