Modern Chinese-Japanese Relations: Is there any hope?

[Snowflake]

There you got the answer to the "I don't know" answer. You chinese students' English ability is perhaps a little better then you Chinese capability, but not too much better. Try explain why you are concerned about their attitude toward the Japanese in Chinese to them.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger



Tibet is a complex issue, but evidence exists that it was never an indepedent country. For example, the selection of a new lama would need to be ultimately approved by Beijing, even way back during the Qing dynasty.

Im sure there are japanese who could make a case for the complexity of Manchu history, and Chinese undermining of their position in Manchuria. I presume the justification of Chinese hatred for Japan is not the legal questions concerning the start of the war, but the atrocities commited during it. Whatever the legal issues regarding Tibet, its hard to see that Tibetans arent entitled to an apology for treatment by China.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Snowflake
There you got the answer to the "I don't know" answer. You chinese students' English ability is perhaps a little better then you Chinese capability, but not too much better. Try explain why you are concerned about their attitude toward the Japanese in Chinese to them.

um, I wasn't the one who posted that. Also, my students usually tell me when they are incapable of expressing something properly in English, where I either coach them to try or let it pass.

[MORON]

Originally posted by Snowflake
I had to say that it might not be the right explanation that Chinese's hatrad toward Japanese is because of the government's manipulation. In fact some people are angry against the government, because the Chinese government has been rather soft on Japan, because it is largely dependent on Japan's economic aids (trades, capital investment, etc). The hatred runs much deeper than that.

We should hate the monglos for slaugther whole cities of Chinese, and the Manchus for enslaving the Han, the proper race of the middle kindom of earth. We should hate the British for the opium wars. We should hate the european powers, and united states, for interfering with Chinese civil wars. Death to vile imperialist imperial powers. (especially the greeks, who started westen civilization and is the cause of lots of ills of the earth)

There is alot more things to hate when one is willing to hold a gruge. It is also silly to extent a hate for people that are no longer alive to those that are living.

Than again, I'm probably influenced by mind altering biological weapons used on former Japanese colonies.

[Q Classic]

or you could be living up to your name.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by DaShi


um, I wasn't the one who posted that. Also, my students usually tell me when they are incapable of expressing something properly in English, where I either coach them to try or let it pass.

Oops, sorry. Do you know what "xiao mi hu" means?

[Natalinasmpf]

I disagree. Reactionary movements have been supressed throughout China's history. None of the ruling powers have encouraged much reactionary behavior because it could lead to revolution. Because of it huge population, the governments of China have tried to encourage a submissive and inured culture. Confuscianism promotes obedience. Buddhism emphasizes complacent acceptance. Chinese culture is more laidback than say European, which I would consider to be much more reactionary.

Do you actually know what reactionary means?

The fact that Chinese culture still sticks to the old conservative Confucianism, and doesn't have much preference philosophies like Socrate's,. shows how reactionary is.

re·ac·tion·ar·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ksh-nr)
adj.

Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative.


n. pl. re·ac·tion·ar·ies

An opponent of progress or liberalism; an extreme conservative.


[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

reactionary

\Re*ac"tion*a*ry\, a. Being, causing, or favoring reaction; as, reactionary movements.

[Free Trial - Merriam-Webster Unabridged.]
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

reactionary

\Re*ac"tion*a*ry\, n.; pl. Reactionaries. One who favors reaction, or seeks to undo political progress or revolution.

[Free Trial - Merriam-Webster Unabridged.]
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

reactionary

adj : extremely conservative [syn: reactionist, far-right] n : an extreme conservative; an opponent of progress or liberalism [syn: ultraconservative, extreme right-winger]

See? Reactionary culture tends to be against upheaval or progress of that culture....generally against revolution. Mao Zedong managed to make his revolution identify with old ideals, hence the support. Without it, it would have been much more harder.

Nationalists however, had much more radical ideas (for China), hence the lack of support for them.

Reactionary behaviour does not lead to revolution; it often is the opposite.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by mindseye
I have lived here about 3.5 years and have now taught about 1,500 students from teens to senior corporate officers. About 1/3 of my students originate from other parts of the country. I would say that about 35% would attest to "hating Japan", another 35% ambivalent but suspicious, 15% openly admire it, the rest - no opinion. But this is in Shanghai. From what I've seen, the animosity is much stronger in the hinterlands, where less exposure to foreigners, lower education levels, and fewer sources of information provide fertile ground for prejudice.

That's much more believable than someone claiming that all Chinese hate the Japanese.

But all this says is that China is like any other country. There are always people who live on hate.

Many Japanese have been taught that they were the victims in World War Two and a small segment are virulently anti-American.

In Canada, there are French-Canadians who hate the anglos, although probably the majority do not. We have bigoted westerners who constantly complain about being oppressed by theiving Easterners, although the majority of Westerners are sane.

In the US, the actions of a dozen or so terrorist has resulted in many Americans hating or being suspicious of all Muslims, but again, the majority of Americans are probably not driven by hate.

As for the media and government, just as China creates the Japanese bogeyman, other governments have created their own imaginary evil.

But I also wonder about how the Chinese government would benefit from inflaming anti-Japanese sentiment. What does the Chinese government gain? There doesn't seem to be an obvious benefit, unlike say Bush drumming up anti-Muslim sentiments.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by DaShi
You should learn more about the Cultural Revolution.

I know about it. I was there.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Snowflake

I had to say that it might not be the right explanation that Chinese's hatrad toward Japanese is because of the government's manipulation.

I never claimed gov't manipulation was the cause of the prejudice (although I think it contributes). What I wrote was that it was obvious the gov't manipulates the issue (and gave a recent example).

It is almost definitely wrong if you assume the Chinese hates the Japanese for no reason.

No reason? I thought I gave a reason. As I wrote, "Given (Japanese WWII atrocities), it is not unexpected that some level of residual hate remains in the populace."

but don't assume all Chinese are dumb asses who are simply covered by blind hatrad.

Let me assure you I do not assume all Chinese are "dumb asses".

The student I quoted wasn't dumb, he just couldn't explain we he hated Japan (in English or Chinese). I was illustrating the observation that both DaShi and I made, i.e. that some Chinese seem to hate Japan simply because other Chinese do. Since you are Chinese, I think maybe you should understand this phenomena of "going with the group" and very well.

It is also possible that he just didn't want to tell you

That's a very good point, and could be true if this was just one isolated case. However, this was one of many exchanges I have had on the topic with friends and students. From my experience, most Chinese are not reluctant to explain why they hate Japanese, if they have a reason. However, some, like this particular student, seem to have no reason except that "everyone thinks this way".

being you are a foreigner and having so little understanding toward the Chinese history and culture.

I think it is very unfortunate when Chinese assume that all foreigners "have so little understanding" of China's history and culture, even foreigners who have lived here for years, studied Chinese history, and speak Chinese.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by mindseye

being you are a foreigner and having so little understanding toward the Chinese history and culture.

I think it is very unfortunate when Chinese assume that all foreigners "have so little understanding" of China's history and culture, even foreigners who have lived here for years, studied Chinese history, and speak Chinese.

I said that it was a posibility. But I apologize for being narrow-minded. In fact you may be more knowlegable than myself in many aspects of Chinese history, because well, I'm kind of bad in that.

As for reasons of hating Japanese, again my experience is a little different from yours. The ones that I personally know that vocalize their hatrad toward Japan really have their reasons, and others just don't care that much. However, you are right that in places like a college, when young people are hot headed about something, a good portion of people will choose to go with the mass just to be safe. I'm not sure if this is specially true in China, or if it is a more general phenomenon, which fuels the destructional power of the collective conciousness.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Tingkai

But all this says is that China is like any other country. There are always people who live on hate.

Certainly true, but what struck DaShi and myself was the ubiquitousness and virility of the anti-Japanese hatred. We are not talking about a fringe group of extremist haters.

Many Japanese have been taught that they were the victims in World War Two and a small segment are virulently anti-American. (emphasis added - mindseye)

If a third of Tokyo Japanese openly claimed to hate all Americans and another third were deeply suspicious of all things American, you would have a closer analogy. Again, it's the scale and strength which are striking.

But I also wonder about how the Chinese government would benefit from inflaming anti-Japanese sentiment. What does the Chinese government gain? There doesn't seem to be an obvious benefit (...)

Certainly you must be aware that villifying a common external enemy is an ancient, tried and true tactic to unite a populace around its leadership and distract it from domestic problems.

[Snowflake]

Now that we talk about this, I think the common external enemy that Chinese government tries to portrait for its people is the US. And there are quite some anti-US sentiment in China too. Although that doesn't prevent people rushing to the US.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Snowflake

However, you are right that in places like a college, when young people are hot headed about something, a good portion of people will choose to go with the mass just to be safe. I'm not sure if this is specially true in China, or if it is a more general phenomenon, which fuels the destructional power of the collective conciousness.

I think your comments about the college environment are dead-on (in the East and West).

Going with the mass is certainly not a uniquely Chinese phenomenon, however I think it is more characteristic of Asian (or at least, Confucian-influenced) thinking than of western thought, where individual opinions and dissension are to some degree more strongly encouraged. Also westerners currently have the advantage of greater access to more information sources and more internationalized societies (China changing quickly in this, as in most, regards).

Lest anyone misunderstand, I'm not trying to draw crude steroetypes here, I'm talking about general tendencies. You can certainly find individualistic Chinese thinkers as well as plenty of western herd-thinkers.

Snowflake, do you live in the west? Your English is quite good.

[Snowflake]

I'm in the US right now. But ask any of the SMAC demogamers they laugh at my grammar mistakes and misspellings.

Btw I totally agree with your last post.