John Kerry: Unfit For Command

[chequita guevara]

Look, these guys are the same people that said John McCain was a collaborator with the North Vietnamese while he was a POW. They have absolutely ZERO credibility.

[Boris Godunov]

che, I believe you, but would love a cite for that so I can show all my friends.

[Pekka]

No I didn't say he got purple heart and everything else is semantics.

I said, he actually FOUGHT in the war and SAVED his fellow soldier, and everything else is just semantics. Meaning the purple heart gotten from self inflicted wounds etc.

I say the rest is semantics, because it's not good to judge a man in war, unless he commits attrocities. Everyone is a coward and everyone is a hero. At least us who never was in Vietnam, I think that's just not the bottom line here.

We got 2 candidates running for presidency. One of them will win. It's a great deal of character in the US. Now, let's compare then. Kerry went to war, volunteered, saved a friend. BUsh dodged the war and supposedly refused to take medicals because of blood tests. Now, if you want to start the mud throwing, if I was Bush, I just wouldn't go there at all. OMG HE GOT SOME OF THE PH WITH WRONG REASONS!1 So what?! Is that playing any importance in the big picture? I don't think it does. I think that is a minor thing to be worried about.

And if the other part of the competition is not able to step up themselves, but to smear the other part, well that tells more about the other part than it does tell about Kerry, now doesn't it?

[ixnay]

Lets get some Snopes up in this piece

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:

"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3

— Fred Short

"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.

I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."3

— David Alston

"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."2

— James Wasser
Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:

Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.

"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer."2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . "He played by the same rules we all did."1

How well all of these men knew John Kerry is questionable, and discrepancies between how some of them described Kerry thirty-five years ago and how they describe him today suggest that their opinions are largely based upon political differences rather than objective assessments of Kerry's military record. For example, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman is quoted above, yet the Los Angeles Times reported:

. . . Hoffman and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffman praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's see how conservatives who defended Clarence Thomas against 10 year old claims by Anita Hill respond to this one. Undoubtedly, being consistent, they'll take the position that making these sorts of claims (on the record is meaningless as public figure immunity means they can't be sued for defamation) 30-odd years after the fact makes them completely lacking in relevance or credibility.

Clarence Thomas didn't run on his record. Kerry has chosen to emphasise his military career, so the Republicans are fully justified to apply the anal probe.

If Kerry wants the issue to go away, then he should stop running on his military record.

[Ben Kenobi]

suggest that their opinions are largely based upon political differences rather than objective assessments of Kerry's military record.

That's a double-edged sword, Ixnay.

Obviously, the ones who support Kerry's experience have been bought off by the Dems.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Clarence Thomas didn't run on his record. Kerry has chosen to emphasise his military career, so the Republicans are fully justified to apply the anal probe.

Clarence Thomas didn't run, his appointment was subject to confirmation hearings. However, that's irrelevant to the issues at hand. Nice punt, though.

In other words, it's irrelevant when convenient, but perfectly relevant for individuals to make unconfirmable accusations 30 years after the fact? Nice to know that conservatives are free of hypocrisy and confine their campaigns to substantive issues, not defamation.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


That's a double-edged sword, Ixnay.

Obviously, the ones who support Kerry's experience have been bought off by the Dems.

Yes - they had the foresight to forge changes to his personnel records and bogus citations for awards some 30 years ago.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If Kerry wants the issue to go away, then he should stop running on his military record.

So in other words, rather than using the independent, documented records of the US Navy, the "issue" should be defined by unverifiable rants and statements of opinion made 30 years later. How convenient.

It's only an "issue" for desperate right-wingers who are hoping to make it an issue in light of their candidate's distinguished record and performance in office. It's a pathetic indication of political hypocrisy for the rest of us.

[Ben Kenobi]

So in other words, rather than using the independent, documented records of the US Navy, the "issue" should be defined by unverifiable rants and statements of opinion made 30 years later. How convenient.

These records agree with the statements on Kerry, that he served on a swift boat, and somehow managed to get injured just enough times to magically acheive the number necessary to return home in an extremely short period. He also managed to get away without any serious injuries.

Seems fishy to me.

Why Kerry chooses to draw attention to his military record is a mystery.

[Ben Kenobi]

In other words, it's irrelevant when convenient, but perfectly relevant for individuals to make unconfirmable accusations 30 years after the fact? Nice to know that conservatives are free of hypocrisy and confine their campaigns to substantive issues, not defamation.

If the military service record of a candidate is not a substantive issue, why is Kerry running on his?

[KrazyHorse]

Is uppose you missed his citation for the silver star then



Ben wins the selective reading prize yet again

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


If the military service record of a candidate is not a substantive issue, why is Kerry running on his?

Exhibit 2 in the selective reading prize

[Ramo]

A "fanny wound" was the highlight of Kerry's much touted "no man left behind" Bronze Star.

Proof that the authors of the book are lying.

Actually, he got the Bronze Star from saving a guy's life

[Ben Kenobi]

I suppose you missed his citation for the silver star then

Nothing in what I quoted is outside of the official record of the Navy.

I have nothing against his star that he won, which I believe was not silver, but bronze.

I suggest you take your own advice.