Planned Parenthood T-Shirts

[Ben Kenobi]

The problem is, pro-life dopes equate a fetus with a born-baby. Even the bible says life starts when your born, not conceived. God recognized the official beginning of human life as being at birth. Genesis 2:7, "God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul."

Where does that quote say anything about birth?

God's breath is not the same as man's.

And God also says, before you were formed in the womb, I knew you.

So the prochoicers can suck donkeyballs.

Edit:

"The problem is, pro-life dopes equate a fetus with a born-baby."

That's sig worthy, sava.

Think about that again.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think you'll find hers read "I wish I had an abortion".

That's a great combination.

Mother and daughter together.

Planned Parenthood should run ads like that.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It'd be realistic.

[muxec]

Why not use condoms?

I think that China must use Australian bunniees for birth control propoganda...

[Sava]

Think about that again.

why?

a fetus is not the same as a baby that has been born

BK:
Exodus 21:22-25 says: "When men strive together and hurt a woman with child so that there is a miscarriage and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her, shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows then you shall give eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life."
(Revised Standard Version)
The King James Version says, "…hurt a woman with child so that her fruit depart from her and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished,…and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life…"

So God says killing a fetus only gets a fine. It doesn't sound like God holds a fetus in high esteem.

God also committed abortions:
Hosea 9:14 Revised Standard Version, To punish Israel for their impiety and idolatry, God Gave them "miscarrying wombs."

And one last thing... you seem to be ignoring the fact that Genisis says a "soul is born" only after God breathed life into his nostrils... breathing isn't something a fetus can do.

[Ben Kenobi]

a fetus is not the same as a baby that has been born

Read it carefully. I know that's what you meant, but that isn't what you are saying there. The prolife dopes?

Does it mean the smart ones say something else?

So God says killing a fetus only gets a fine. It doesn't sound like God holds a fetus in high esteem.

Read again. If a woman miscarries, and no harm comes to either the child, or the woman, the woman is to be compensated with a fine.

If the woman miscarries and harm comes to either the child, or the woman, then lex talionis applies.

Hosea 9:14 Revised Standard Version, To punish Israel for their impiety and idolatry, God Gave them "miscarrying wombs."

So? Where does that affirm abortion, undertaken by men to kill the child in the womb?

Miscarriage is quite different from abortion.

you seem to be ignoring the fact that Genisis says a "soul is born" only after God breathed life into his nostrils... breathing isn't something a fetus can do.

Into his nostrils? I only see that God breathing life into the body is what is said.

Secondly, if the child can give life to himself at birth, why is there any need for God at all? God's breath is not the same as our biological breath.

[Ben Kenobi]

Potential human beings are not human beings.

And Che makes a very good point.

I was going to clarify that, but Che's already brought that up.

An unborn child is not a person, because of the potential for viability, but rather, is a person because of what she already possesses at conception.

At conception you have the genetic code required to grow and develop, as a person distinct from either parent, a characteristic not possessed by sperm, and retained by the child throughout their life.

[Last Conformist]

Read again. If a woman miscarries, and no harm comes to either the child, or the woman, the woman is to be compensated with a fine.

Miscarriage with no harm to the child?!? What kind of crack are you on?

[Az]

I think this is turning into another one of those stalemate/mastrubation threads. So I'll just point out my pov and then leave. I'll return tomorrow, though.

If you'd ask me about 4 years ago where I stood, I was all pro-choice.

However, when I started thinking more and more about the ethical benefits, and harms, and as I've heard the arguments from both sides, mostly here on apolyton, I've started to really be undecided on this one.

I fully realize that sometimes, accidents, and crimes happen, that lead to conception. That even though pills, and condoms exist, sometimes, there is a conception. That's why I support measures such as the morning-after pill. ( those two, used together, reduce the risk of pregnancy to minute.) and even if all that fails, I support early abortions( missing the period is warning). I also support early abortions of babies who suffer from incurable deseases that would badly harm their lifestyles ( that are diagnosed, as soon as possible). However, that's it. Other than that, it means that the people/ woman that didn't make an abortion till that time, thought that one can play with human life, and end it at any time they wish, thus devaluing them.

And say what you will, we do punish people who kill fetuses while attacking women, more than just by making them punished for assault. There's a reason for it.

[Kuciwalker]

I think you'll find hers read "I wish I had an abortion".

I wanna wear a shirt that says that

[Ben Kenobi]

Miscarriage with no harm to the child?!? What kind of crack are you on?

No crack. The child can be expelled from the womb, and alive.

From the NIV:

Exodus 21:22

"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

[Ben Kenobi]

I wanna wear a shirt that says that

It's a woman's issue, Skywalker.

[Ben Kenobi]

And say what you will, we do punish people who kill fetuses while attacking women, more than just by making them punished for assault. There's a reason for it.

And what is that reason?

Should a woman who is pregnant in the first trimester who gets beaten, be treated differently from a woman in the second trimester who gets beaten?

[Last Conformist]

If the child survives, it's pretty much by definition not "miscarriage".

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
Spiffor: That is strange. Perhaps it's more a unity thing... I would like to think most pro-choice advocates hold the same position as myself... as they are more a necessary "evil".

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. But I don't suppose frothing-anti-choicers will.

I would suspect either a few rather radical types making a freelance decision, a couple of pro-life types who've infiltrated a loosely run organization, or some unusually misguided types who really, really want to stir **** up and think this is going to be popular.

That's just a bit far (regardless of personal ideology, I'm talking about the institutional mindset) down the provocative path, when PP has tried to remain pretty low key considering their level of involvement in the abortion issue in the US.