Do you keep the Sabbath?

[KrazyHorse]

To rip off a line from Maddox:

"For every Sabbath that you keep, I'm going to break three".

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


I just don't feel like sitting around for 16 hours a week navel-gazing when I could either be thinking about problems that have real solutions or enjoying myself with trivialities.

whats to keep you from thinking about problems with real solutions. Nothing in the Jewish sabbath law keeps you from reading a secular book on shabbos, and I often do. Its a nice time to read. And to think quietly, if you prefer. Or to talk with friends, if they share your interests/concerns.

"Mr. Shapiro, why are you in shul every week, i know full well youre an atheist"
"Mr. Levi comes to talk with God, and I come to talk with Mr. Levi"

[Ben Kenobi]

Just as every tiny gargoyle, every curlicue in stone or glass is an act of LOVE, so every detail of law, every little folkway that ties that law together, is an expression of LOVE for the giver of the Shabbat.

Yes, but do you communicate using the fancy text of medieval periods, finely crafted, or through more simpler text?

The intricacies can obscure the truth.

[Ben Kenobi]

Such reciprocity would be the highest honor we could do to G-d.

Then Christians should only go to Jewish restaurants on Sundays.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I don't have an issue with electricity

or doing needed chores

JM

Conservative Jewish rabbis do allow electricity. Theres some controversy about the basis for the Orthodox ban on electricity on Shabbos, but that would take you farther into this than i think any of you want to go.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


whats to keep you from thinking about problems with real solutions. Nothing in the Jewish sabbath law keeps you from reading a secular book on shabbos, and I often do. Its a nice time to read. And to think quietly, if you prefer. Or to talk with friends, if they share your interests/concerns.

That's ridiculous. My job is to think and read. So if I'm thinking and reading about physics then I'm working.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Then Christians should only go to Jewish restaurants on Sundays.

They need to get some Montreal Jews down here so I can get a decent smoked meat sandwich.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Yes, but do you communicate using the fancy text of medieval periods, finely crafted, or through more simpler text?

The intricacies can obscure the truth.

thats why we need "kavannah" intention, spirituality. Just performing ritual deeds without it isnt enough. Rabbinic homilies, chassidic tales, family traditions and associations, personal meditation etc can all help us to connect the ritual deeds to the human heart. Shabbos candles may be a legal endrun around the ban on lighting a fire (its ok IF the fire/candle/oil lamp is lit before shabbos begins) to me its the face of my mother, G-d rest her soul, lighting the candles, and silently praying over them. Cholent is a technical means around the ban on cooking - but its the warmth of my inlaws kitchens, the taste that accompanies the shabbos table, and (often) leads the way to a shabbos nap-


real living observant Jews arent comic book Pharisees.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


That's ridiculous. My job is to think and read. So if I'm thinking and reading about physics then I'm working.

technically no. We're lost in translation here. Theres a speficic list of banned activities found in the bible, and elaborated on by the rabbis. Some connect them with the actions taken in building the ancient tabernacle - others speak of these actions (burning, tearing, etc) as actions that interfere with nature - shabbos is a time when we leave nature alone - what you do during the week technically doesnt matter.

But certainly if shabbos is not just to be a religious observance, to be felt as a day of rest, it must be different than what we do during the week. Which is difficult if what we do during the week is something we DEEPLY ENJOY. (I would suggest that there are practical problems you could contemplate OTHER than those that concern your work - but I dont that answers the problem I have just stated)

I dont have an answer handy, but I do recall seeing an article that addressed speficically this problem.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Then Christians should only go to Jewish restaurants on Sundays.

and muslims ones. Dare I say that at this time the need for Christian - Muslim and Jewish - Muslims reconciliation is even more urgent than the need for Christian - Jewish reconciliation?

[KrazyHorse]

I know that it's not, technically. I'm just saying that telling me that I am able to read a book on physics whereas an construction worker isn't able to go outside and build a fence around his house is ridiculous.

There are already enough silly taboos; why would I pick up one which is no longer even socially encouraged?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I'm really pissed off that liquor stores aren't open on Sundays here.

yah

I dont' beleive in legislating religion

Jon Miller

[KrazyHorse]

I don't believe in legislating alcohol.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I know that it's not, technically. I'm just saying that telling me that I am able to read a book on physics whereas an construction worker isn't able to go outside and build a fence around his house is ridiculous.

There are already enough silly taboos; why would I pick up one which is no longer even socially encouraged?

well if youre not Jewish by birth or choice, or contemplating conversion, I really shouldnt even suggest that you do so. The Shabbat is a gift to the Jews alone (apologies to the Seventh Day Adventists and others here - youre certainly entitled to YOUR religions views, im just explaining to KH a point of JEWISH law)

OTOH it would be dishonest of me to deny that some people find the Shabbos a truely restorative time. OTOH not all do. YMMV. Alot depends on whether you celebrate it as part of a Jewishly observant community, and what sort of community. And what you bring to it, in terms of associations, beliefs, etc.

There are certainly aspects of it I dont yet observe fully - for reasons that have to do with my place in life, the state of my own beliefs, etc. You dont have to take it all it once.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


That's ridiculous. My job is to think and read. So if I'm thinking and reading about physics then I'm working.

I see nothign wrong with reading physics, or thinking about physics (in general)

if it is doing problems for class though, taht is work

Jon Miller