Arrest me and throw away the key

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Berzerker


That should be legal too.

(as long as the religion does not advocate violence against them)

to BK for not seeing that the two are equivalent.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I read this sermon of Åke Green (that's how he's spelled) which is obnoxious to say the least and as far as I can tell, these are the main points:

No incitement to violence I can see. If this is the actual story then to Sweden for moving against free speech.

[Kitschum]

Wonderful, another dubious mention of Sweden abroad! Us small countries have to eat what's put on the table, I suppose.

I've just skimmed the thread and I'm no expert on this or any other law. The WorldNetDaily article is just ridiculous. The first paragraph of the news item in the first post in this thread is probably wrong on the bible verses thing. In the second paragraph, "forbids criticism of homosexuality" is deliberate distortion. I don't know about the prosecutor's quote.

I'm personally not a supporter of the hate speech (hets mot folkgrupp) law in general, but the extension of protection to include homosexuals and the fact that you can't hide behind a pulpit or a bible or koran is only logical. It's a new law (change) and this is the first case of it being tested that I'm aware of. As I understand it, the pastor didn't incite violence directly. So yeah, score one for the anti-free speech lobby. However, I don't believe he was convicted specifically for any bible quoting.

I haven't read the sermon, but the verdict has been criticized in the papers I read, even by RFSL - an organisation for sexual equal opportunity - but in their case, for being too lenient! In any case this was just tingsrätten (the lowest level of courts) and the pastor has appealed. Here's a newspaper opinion, that I partially agree with, from the biggest Swedish broadsheet from a few days ago:

http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=577&a=283208

Choice (my) translation:

"A democratic society which rests on the principle of everyone's equal worth must take hate crimes very seriously, partly because democracies have an obligation to protect their minorities, partly because the character of hate crimes is anti-democratic."

"Pastor Green considers homosexuality an invention of the devil. He bunches it together with incest and pedophilia and contends that those "sexual abnormities are a deep cancer tumor on the entire body politic""

"It's entirely clear that statements of the kind that the pastor has made could be understood as both vilifying and threatening [to homosexuals]. But was the context such that anyone had reason to feel threatened? Hardly in the congregation before him. And while newspapers have distributed the pastor's words the legal responsibility has rested on the publisher."

"Pastor Green has expressed a horrible and inhumane view. He has balanced on the edge of what a democratic society can accept. Still he should have been found innocent. Not because the question of hate crimes has been exaggerated but precisely because it's so serious."

(Edit)

[Atahualpa]

Love, Peace and Harmony

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Azazel
Why not? (it's immoral, as well )

Ain't no Crustacean.

[Pekka]

While I don't think this is direct as to encourage people to violent acts, I think this is close to persecution. First of all we have to remember this person has influence in local community. Now people take very seriously what he says. He doesn't stop to say homosexualism according to his interpretation of the Bible is sin. He continues to say that homosexuals are likely to rape animals. How's that not demonizing and outright lie? Homosexualism has got nothing to do with raping animals. You'd get the idea that gay people are all about lust so deep, they'd even rape animals.

The plague of this society, so big that God could strike upon whole Scandinavia? Puhhlease! What kind of interpretation this is? Persecution is closer what comes to mind.

The good people suffers from AIDS, is not from the bible.

That you don't have a right to have your own private life when it comes to sex as your own matter? Wrong. It is personal matter, and law protects it.

Lumping up pedophiles and gays? Pedophiles are criminals, and sick people. Unlike gays, pedophiles have victims. But you want to think about those poor victims and gays in the same sentence, why? What's the other got to do with the other, except that they'd be both sins?

All this, is to demonize the gay people. Like Jews were demonized in Nazi films.

I would let some of the points fly and leave it like that, but some of those, like the ones I mentioned.. I mean you mention one of these, ok.. but you mention all of these? This is yes close to persecution. Ain't no job title going to rescue him from that.

But to be fair, I don't think he deserves to go to jail for it. A warning would be more sufficient IMO.

[Dinner]

Sweden has lost much respect in my eyes. The man simply pointed out quotes in the bible which forbid homosexuality. I doubt anyone can argue that the practice of Christianity is dependent upon the teachings of the Bible.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
As has become obligatory lately:

Free speech:
Laws that prohibit incitement to violence against any individual or group:
Laws that prohibit incitement to hatred:
Social conservatism:
Ben Kenobi's one-track mind:
Spotting a Canadian social conservative: because it's embarassing and because it's as rare as a steak that's still kicking

You basically already posted my sentiments, man.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Agathon
Perhaps Christianity is a hate religion?

nah

[Whaleboy]

Hate speech:
Hatred of hate speech:
Hate:

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Hatred of hate speech:

What's wrong with that? I hate Hate Speech. But I tolerate it as a right.

[Gibsie]

Ben should also try and open a guesthouse in Canada and see what happens if he forbids gays from staying with him (As with a Scottish guy who wouldn't let them stay in his house, and was thrown off a tourist board as a result, although not prosecuted).

[Whaleboy]

Oh that's ok... I don't consider that hatred, merely disdain. I guess I believe love and hate are two sides of the same coin, you feel both in your heart and will find it harder to rationalise keeping it as a right, whereas disdain is in the mind, where you can rationalise.

[BeBMan]

Why did he get away with one month in prison?

[Ben Kenobi]

I think Ben should be arrested and thrown into a cell with a pack of naked, nymphomaniac Mariah Carey lookalikes and a few cases of Molson.

That's a cure for Xtian morality if there ever was one.

I'll be sure to let you know if I ever do end up in jail, and you can keep your end of the bargain.