Socialist claim victory in Spain

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sava
It's really sad when people so blinded by political ideology can't admit they are wrong. AZNAR COULD NOT KEEP SPAIN SAFE... that's why his government is gone.

AND NEITHER CAN THE PSOE! You are just stuck in your own stupidity.. I mean clear out your damn ears and go ***** and moan about somebody else's country.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by GePap
Given that the fight vs AQ is happening in Europe and Afghanistan, I fail to see how pulling 1300 men form Iraq hurts Spain's war on AQ.

there is some pretty compelling evidence that they are operating in Iraq NOW. Before the invasion is a different story as far as evidence, but post invasion is even now acknowledged by AQ that they are there. If Spain wants to take on AQ outside of their own boarders, then staying in Iraq is the thing to do. If they are making a post invasion political statement that they are willing to let the war come to them and fight on the homeland then the new government is spot on. Wonder if 80% would support that line of thought if it was presented to them?

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by GePap


I am sorry, but it is lovely for the Spaniards who support the right, besides getting rid of things that would identify them as being from Spain, moan about how their country has been sold out by their own people! Damn those stupid voters! Things were better under the Franco dictatorship, no doubt!

GePap, don´t put in my mouth words that I have not said. If the Spanish people choose to be cowards that´s ok for me. I will respect it. But I have the right the have a different opinion. Or am I forbidden?

So typical of the left to accuse the right of its faults...

At least it will be funny to watch the incompetence of Zapatero furing those 4 years

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


The PP means = Stronger approach towards terrorism
The PSOE means = Weaker approach towards terrorism

Not even borne out by recent Spanish history:

'1983-87

(P.S.O.E. elected 1982)

Gal, the anti-terrorist liberation group, is set up to fight a dirty war against Eta. Its agents carry out assassinations of known Eta members (and several who were not), kidnappings, bombings and torture, killing 27 people during the 80s.

1987

21 shoppers are killed when a bomb hits a Barcelona supermarket. Eta apologises for a "mistake."

1988-95

Judge Baltasar Garzon begins to look at links between the P.S.O.E. government and Gal. It emerges that Gal groups were made up entirely of mercenaries recruited by two policemen using public funds. The P.S.O.E. prime minister, Felipe Gonzalez, denies that he authorised their actions, but the scandal taints the ailing Socialist P.S.O.E. administration.'

Yeah, those soft lefties.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Not even borne out by recent Spanish history:

'1983-87

(P.S.O.E. elected 1982)

Gal, the anti-terrorist liberation group, is set up to fight a dirty war against Eta. Its agents carry out assassinations of known Eta members (and several who were not), kidnappings, bombings and torture, killing 27 people during the 80s.

Yup, and most of the time they killed the wrong people.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
No.

Then you have a writing comprehension problem too.

I'm thinking about burning it.

Go ahead. Remember, do it in your waste paper basket, right before going to sleep.

You have the reading comprehension of a five year old.

OOF, the brilliant logic of Poly's greatest debater!

Liberation issues again. If all the coalition partners pull out, Al Qaeda will see an opportunity to exploit the situation and we will have tons of terrorists everywhere.

Unlike today, where, with the cooliion there, there are tons of terorrist everywhere as is (heck, since no one could have stopped the attack in Madrid...or 9/11, or Balui bombing, or the Istanbul bombings, or or or).

Maybe you forget what the new gov said fezzikins-they will leave Iraq if by the end of June there is no new UN mandate to give a greater role to the UN. You also forget that the handover of autonomy is also schedules for June.

But you forget a lot Fezziekins, don;t you?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


AND NEITHER CAN THE PSOE! You are just stuck in your own stupidity.. I mean clear out your damn ears and go ***** and moan about somebody else's country.

nah... as I said, you are entertaining

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by General Ludd
If the attack had resulted in a huge swing towards the PP, would people still be crying over spain giving into terrorism and leting it effect their vote?

In that case, 11-M would have been our Pearl Harbour, or even our 11-S. Now it´s too pretentious to compare it to such important dates.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sava
It's really sad when people so blinded by political ideology can't admit they are wrong. AZNAR COULD NOT KEEP SPAIN SAFE... that's why his government is gone.

Such a statement applies to anybody else. It's not like it is easy to prevent a terrorist attack. The catastrophe may well have happened under any other government.

To think the attack was the only issue on which the Spaniards voted is an insult to them. Like every other people in a democracy, they voted on other things. Aznar's pro free-market policies, hardline policies against terror groups and affiliated, alignment with the US in Iraq, and other issues, determined the vote of MILLIONS before the attack.
If anything, the attack changed the mind of swing voters. Those who support PP's ideology did vote PP, and those who support PSOE's ideology did vote PSOE, no matter the attack.

Just look at Giancarlo and OliverFA here: they were going to vote PP prior to the attacks and they did. And I assume Jasev, Alfonso and others were decided to vote PSOE prior to the attacks as well.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by GePap
Unlike today, where, with the cooliion there, there are tons of terorrist everywhere as is (heck, since no one could have stopped the attack in Madrid...or 9/11, or Balui bombing, or the Istanbul bombings, or or or).

Maybe you forget what the new gov said fezzikins-they will leave Iraq if by the end of June there is no new UN mandate to give a greater role to the UN. You also forget that the handover of autonomy is also schedules for June.

But you forget a lot Fezziekins, don;t you?

You might aswell go after those who do the attacks instead of trying to stop them. I agree you need some defense. But you also need some offense. Like in American football. If you have no defense, you will get clobbered. If you have no offense forget about making any points.

But we cannot pull out once we hand over the authority... they don't have an adequate defense apparatus set up yet.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by GePap
they will leave Iraq if by the end of June there is no new UN mandate to give a greater role to the UN. You also forget that the handover of autonomy is also schedules for June.

Is Spain saying that they will now trust their own security to the UN? Will they not deploy beyond their boarders in self defense unless mandated by the UN? Does P.S.O.E. have the 1st clue on foriegn policy? Inquiring minds want to know...

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


Yup, and most of the time they killed the wrong people.

Just admit you were wrong for once.

Unless you think those E.T.A. members killed during the P.S.O.E.'s period of government were killed with kindness- they overdosed on churros and chocolate, pigs' ears and manzanilla, I suppose.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Such a statement applies to anybody else. It's not like it is easy to prevent a terrorist attack. The catastrophe may well have happened under any other government.

To think the attack was the only issue on which the Spaniards voted is an insult to them. Like every other people in a democracy, they voted on other things. Aznar's pro free-market policies, hardline policies against terror groups and affiliated, alignment with the US in Iraq, and other issues, determined the vote of MILLIONS before the attack.
If anything, the attack changed the mind of swing voters. Those who support PP's ideology did vote PP, and those who support PSOE's ideology did vote PSOE, no matter the attack.

Just look at Giancarlo and OliverFA here: they were going to vote PP prior to the attacks and they did. And I assume Jasev, Alfonso and others were decided to vote PSOE prior to the attacks as well.

The PSOE honestly isn't really that much different than the PP when it comes to the economy, as I said the economic minister is going to most likely be a former BBVA banker.

[GePap]

Originally posted by PLATO


there is some pretty compelling evidence that they are operating in Iraq NOW. Before the invasion is a different story as far as evidence, but post invasion is even now acknowledged by AQ that they are there. If Spain wants to take on AQ outside of their own boarders, then staying in Iraq is the thing to do. If they are making a post invasion political statement that they are willing to let the war come to them and fight on the homeland then the new government is spot on. Wonder if 80% would support that line of thought if it was presented to them?

Sorry, but sell a product using false advertisement, don;t be surprised when customers return the goods.
I love self-perpetuating wars! Lets go fight AQ in Iraq! wait, there are none..wait, they came in after we came in! We must continue to fight AQ!

Notice how the goverment of Spain has said they will keep troops in Spain if the UN is given a wider mandate..you know, the same thing for example India asked for when contemplating sending 17,000 troops a few months back.

Problem with relying on a "coolition of the willing" as opposed to a real international mandate-things fall apart when the willing don;t care anymore.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Such a statement applies to anybody else. It's not like it is easy to prevent a terrorist attack. The catastrophe may well have happened under any other government.

To think the attack was the only issue on which the Spaniards voted is an insult to them. Like every other people in a democracy, they voted on other things. Aznar's pro free-market policies, hardline policies against terror groups and affiliated, alignment with the US in Iraq, and other issues, determined the vote of MILLIONS before the attack.
If anything, the attack changed the mind of swing voters. Those who support PP's ideology did vote PP, and those who support PSOE's ideology did vote PSOE, no matter the attack.

Just look at Giancarlo and OliverFA here: they were going to vote PP prior to the attacks and they did. And I assume Jasev, Alfonso and others were decided to vote PSOE prior to the attacks as well.

I agree there were other issues that caused Aznar to get the boot... but the national security failure that led to the bombings (and the preceding provocation) was the straw that broke the camel's back.