What exactly does "left" or "right" mean to you?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kucinich
How much other people are willing to pay them

That's not it.

[Boris Godunov]

Left = right
Right = wrong

Simple enough.

[SpencerH]

exactly

left=right
right=wrong

therefore

left=wrong

[Boris Godunov]

False correlation, notice my strategic differentiation of words through the use of capital letters.

[SpencerH]

I saw them, but I took it to mean that you hadnt had time to correct the typo.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


That's not it.

I am thus refuted

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you agree that Burke begs the question.

Then so does everyone else.

And most people believe that gradual change is best. Hell, even Sava does .

It's dumb to agree with Burke just because of the French Revolution

Well we could bring in the Russian Revolution as well . Upsetting the traditions of people overnight just will lead to violence and bloodshed. You've simply overturned most people's world.

The French Revolution is used because it REALLY went out of its way to go against tradition, in a sense no other revolution has really done. Even the Russian Revolution, for instance, kept the same days and months!

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

So you agree that Burke begs the question.

Then so does everyone else.

But on a case by case basis. As a general rule of reason it is fallacious.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Well we could bring in the Russian Revolution as well . Upsetting the traditions of people overnight just will lead to violence and bloodshed. You've simply overturned most people's world.

Yes, the world wide non-massacres of women following the extension of the franchise in New Zealand, Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States being notable examples.

Or the non-mass slaughters of Catholics following Catholic Emancipation in the United Kingdom (yes there were the Gordon Riots, but these were quickly contained).

The Reform Acts of 1832 and 1867 extending the franchise in the United Kingdom and reforming Parliament also didn't lead to bloodshed.

Three examples of the world turned upside down with minimal bloodshed or destruction.

[Ben Kenobi]

left=right
right=wrong

therefore

left=wrong



'Fraid he has you here Boris.

[Agathon]

Man... the righties aren't coming off too well in this thread.

Come on Ben, you know you are a lefty really.

Fidel was right - nobody could read what the Man said without being one at heart.

[Ben Kenobi]

Come on Ben, you know you are a lefty really.

Sometimes I wonder when I agree with Che about the abolition of the army.

I disagree with so many things that I see in society today, yet would it be proper to call me a reformer?
Someone on the left?

[Agathon]

If you believe in the fundamental equality of all human beings, most of it follows.

My definitions are pretty expansive. I just intended them to catch the most fish, and I think they are about as good as one could get, although not perfect. That being so, there is a a lot of room for maneuver within both left and right.

There's nothing about abortion that means you must be a rightie. Plenty of lefties are anti-abortion. It's not part of the core view.

[Agathon]

Actually Ben, if you believe that the core of the moral view is to consider others as ends in themselves and not means, you must reject capitalism as a moral system since it compels you to value others as commodities (and hence, as unequal to yourself).

And if you hold that God loves all his children equally, and is prepared to extend forgiveness to all of them and see the best in all of them, then you must do so as well. That goes for homosexuals and abortionists.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Three examples of the world turned upside down with minimal bloodshed or destruction.

All three were results of gradual change and long, long periods of debate and shifting ideas. Neither renders Burke's point wrong. Besides other traditions still were in existance, unlike the French Revolution's aftermath.