What exactly does "left" or "right" mean to you?

[joncha]

Left and right have nothing to do with the state. Both sides have their fair share of state-fetishists.

As simply as I can put it: Right is pro-business, Left is pro-worker. If you put the needs of corporations above the needs of workers, you're right-wing. If you attempt to balance them equally, you're a centrist. If you put workers first (to any degree) you're on the left.

Everything else is situational.

jon.

[SKILORD]

I don't think so joncha.

No, not at all. In fact that makes no sense since that is only one issue in a whole sea of issues. We can't effectively base our measure of a political party/candidate on their feelings on a single issue. Another thing, both sides of your political spectrum are statist, neither believes in independent action, neither believes in equality (no, not even the centrists) but both believe in large government to serve their masters.

[joncha]

As I said, that's all situational.

Anarchists are on the left. They don't like states. Fascists are on the right, they love states and state-worship.

In the US, both the Democrats and Republicans are right wing, with the Dems being closer to centre not because of the like to use the state more (which they don't... the military is part of the state), but because they are more likely to favour social programs, which are overwhelmingly more useful to working people than they are to business.

[Kuciwalker]

Left and right are all relative to center... thus democrats are left, because they are left of the center. And the US isn't really right-of-center... people only say that because they compare it to Europe. Look at, say, Iran, and the US looks communist.

[joncha]

Originally posted by Kucinich
Left and right are all relative to center... thus democrats are left, because they are left of the center. And the US isn't really right-of-center... people only say that because they compare it to Europe. Look at, say, Iran, and the US looks communist.

That's just an easy way for the Democrats to appear left-wing (and for the Republicans to get away with calling themselves "moderate"). American politics is right of centre. The Democrats wouldn't be seen as "on the left" if it wasn't. The last time the US had a left-wing party of any size electorally was the Socialist Party in the 1920s. Since then, everything to the left of centre has been branded as communist and (during the Cold War) stomped out of existence.

[Kuciwalker]

Right of WHAT center?

[joncha]

Originally posted by Kucinich
Right of WHAT center?

The centre I mentioned a few posts up....

Left=people before profits
Right=business first
Centre=attempt to balance the two

In everywhere put the good ol' US of A, this is pretty well accepted.

[Kuciwalker]

You cannot define entire parties based on ONE issue.

In everywhere put the good ol' US of A, this is pretty well accepted.

By which you mean... Europe.

If you look at a place like Iran, they'd probably have a significantly different definition of "left" and "right"

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Kucinich
Left and right are all relative to center... thus democrats are left, because they are left of the center. And the US isn't really right-of-center... people only say that because they compare it to Europe. Look at, say, Iran, and the US looks communist.

The choice of comparison may depend on one's idea of progress.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by SKILORD
Let me take a go at it.

Left: Big government. Believe in creating a nation dependant upon inefficient beaurocrats and limping it's way into a grave.

Radical Parties (Communist, Fascist) take full control of the economic output of the nation.

Fascist is left? So much for your definition.

[joncha]

Originally posted by Kucinich


You cannot define entire parties based on ONE issue.

In everywhere put the good ol' US of A, this is pretty well accepted.

By which you mean... Europe.

If you look at a place like Iran, they'd probably have a significantly different definition of "left" and "right"

Doubtful. Most of the leftists in Iran were killed, imprisoned or forced abroad. What remains are the extreme right and the moderates, and the moderates don't have an easy time of it.

And its not "one" issue: Supporting the haves ('cuz they create the wealth for the rest of society), right-wing. Supporting the have-nots ('cuz they deserve better and besides, the haves have made a mess of things), left-wing.

Otherwise, you have no basis for comparing parties and politics from country to country...

[SKILORD]

Fascists belive in government control and are therefore leftist regimes.

In practice there's little difference between Fascism and Communism.

[joncha]

Originally posted by SKILORD
Fascists belive in government control and are therefore leftist regimes.

In practice there's little difference between Fascism and Communism.

Tell that to the fascists and the communists.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by SKILORD
Fascists belive in government control and are therefore leftist regimes.

In practice there's little difference between Fascism and Communism.

It looks like you have some rather bad misconceptions.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by SKILORD

In practice there's little difference between Fascism and Communism.

That's obviously why Hitler went out of his way to exterminate "Bolshevism".

Fascism is state corporatism with a dash of racism - at least Classic fascism was like that.

Fascism is a right wing ideology - it celebrates inequality by making the foreigner or Jew the "devil" who is naturally unfit for civilization and to be exterminated.

No one has yet disproved my equality criterion.